Ya that’s something I didn’t fully think of, in that the outsider isn’t quite thinking of bringing in newer players and doesn’t know that intrinsic stuff about the club, which I can understand. Have seen tensions develop with Football/Hurling management alright.
I still think though that the positives of an outsider outweigh the negativity around it. They can just have some local Selector at least.
The turnover in club managements is mental. You’d rarely see anyone keep the same management for more than 2 years and many don’t even last a season.
You’d never really get a Brian Cody or Mickey Harte situation at club level where the same manager is there for 10-15 years.
Just to give a small example of the negatives in the County scene of a ‘Local’ or someone with a knowledge of the club game historically coming in what can happen.
I was with a County setup for a few years. Over the time, some players had left the panel for different reasons; work, disagreements with management, time commitments etc.,
Over the few years we had built up thousands and thousands of data points and really good insights on every player that had played. First time I spoke to the new manager on the phone, his comment was ‘first thing’s first; I’m bringing X, Y and Z back into the panel. Have seen them play club and they’re excellent’.
The annoying thing is though, we had all of the data which pretty much confirmed that they were not up to it at the County Level that they were in. This came to fruition of course when they were brought in. Now if he had said ‘There are certain players I want on the panel that mightn’t see many minutes but will be good dressing room leaders’ or something. I’d accept that. But they were brought straight in as starters and really were not good.
Haha oh god ya I see that; but that’s fair enough. I suppose then what I’d say is everything up to Adult should be local reps managing and keeping tabs on all of the players, so that knowledge can be passed on to whomever is in charge of the adult teams?
Dunno though
What kind of ‘data points’?
Ye’d know a player was just too slow or something to ever make it at Inter County?
Performance-based ones. Not GPS ones.
Possessions per 70 mins
Turnover rate
Fouls won/conceded per 70 mins
Possessions per shot
Pass success rate/passes leading to shots
Frees won that lead to placed ball shots
Shot from play success %
Tackle/Hook/Block attempts per 70 mins
All would be compared to other players and specifically in similar positions. When you have X amount of minutes played, it’s enough of a sample size to help with those decisions.
At the level you were at how many people are gathering these stats? I’ve been interested in this area for a long time without having direct experience (although lots of experience in data collection and analysis in a wider context). Is there a team of people gathering a lot of this live, or is more based on a smaller group doing video analysis after the fact?
It was a data provider that collected it for us (using footage). Not sure how many people they have. Think Opta type stuff (won’t say their name here - PM if you want). There are a LOT of spoofers in the industry and I promise you this; people having the GAA Analysis badges means absolutely nothing.
Live, in reality 1 person is enough. Team Possessions, Individual Possessions, Turnovers, fouls conceded/won shots etc.
Post-match is where the nitty gritty stuff comes in then.
It’s the cumulative data over a period of time that was the most benefit to us, rather than simply match-on-match data.
Bitter cunts most of the time
I’ve seen that first hand with one outside coach who was very much fixed on his best 18-20 and hardly cared for anyone else on the extended panel. But I’ve also had the pleasure of an outside manager who came in with a complete blank page and rewarded a few bolters who dug in for him. Outside coaches do tend to be to the detriment of the 2nd team though. Even something as small as bringing on a Junior eligible player for 5 minutes in a group game. It may be only a time wasting tactic but it deprives the second team of an important player then. A fine balancing act. I found it very enjoyable when an in club manager took both teams and had both purring simultaneously.
Yeah I reckon in the football that I’ve played under 8 different managers in the last 10 years. It’s a near annual meeting in January every year to sound out players about a new managerial appointment.
Was this a football or hurling set-up and roughly at what level? Trying to figure out who that manager might be.
The bizarre thing is it takes time for any manager to bed in his ideas. I suppose football is very template based and a lot of them would be doing the same things but even then there’d be nuances that would take time
There’s usually a bit of continuity with some of the same selectors. Usually in-house managers can’t commit for too long because they’re not really reaping any financial rewards other than allowances (I presume). I’ve found this year refreshing. Learned a lot more about the likes of back-door cuts, plus 1’s and slow ball. There’s more freedom in the hurling by comparison. The main advice is to make sure to take at least your 5 steps because the refs won’t call it. That and fire the pass at your teammates head rather than tapping around with it.
Hurling
Between Ring and Meagher
Mickey Harte gave a Tour De France of a homily at the Holycross Novena during the week.
Lovely interview with him on Tipp FM this morning.
Poor man’s conscience must be at him all the time.
I would say one thing about outside managers in some clubs it can benefit the overall running of the club overall.
You often see clubs split when people fall out and that can have long term issues. Players not playing because x is over the team and people not supporting fundraising efforts as well based on who’s in management positions.
I do think lads charging clubs to train teams is a bit of a joke. It’s real dead money that could be spent better.
The Ulster football championship looks like the only decent provincial competition left.
Would be incredible if the Kilcoo lads got back into the down fold and led them to the promised land.
You’ve Donegal back.
Derry with Mickey Harte.
Tyrone seething.
Armagh are still decent.
Can Monaghan go again.
It’s the envy of the country.
Ah its been totally dumbed down now thanks to the ridiculous round robin format.
Monaghan beat Tyrone this year and then Derry beat Monaghan back in April with nobody gave a fuck.
The Final remains a great occasion though.