More often than not the view is that they are a burden to their family and by ending it they are helping their family… Unless you have suffered from some form of depression I don’t think you can fully comprehend the mindset.
There’s a semblance of truth to that Sid but unless you’ve battled depression itself, it’s harsh to judge. I’m grateful I’ve never been blighted by this, the most tragic thing is if you lost someone close to you without being aware of their stigma.
[quote=“ChocolateMice, post: 637127”]
More often than not the view is that they are a burden to their family and by ending it they are helping their family… [/quote]
Absolute bollocks and you know it.
We’re assuming that Gary Speed was depressed. That may not necessarily have been the case at all. There are any amount of reasons you could care to think of about why somebody could commit sucide. It could be as a result of long term depression, deep unhappiness with your life circumstnces, a sudden tragic event that happens in your life, a humiliating event, a change in mood brought about by alcohol, and thousands more reasons nobody could even think of. It could be planned or it could be spur of the moment.
But the person who commits suicide no longer has to suffer whatever problems they had, and a whole world is grief and torment is unleashed on their family.
I’d guess that some people on this forum have thought about suicide. They may not have thought about it seriously, they may have just toyed with the idea, even if only for a brief moment. As I posted drunkenly on the suicide thread, I have. Probably not seriously, almost always due to the appalling after effects of alcohol, possibly due to unhappiness at my life in an occasional moment. I haven’t suffered from clinical depression. But I have thought about it. And I bet I’m not alone on this forum.
I also thought about the effect it would have on my family. I’m pretty sure it would destroy them. Losing a family member in any circumstance is bad enough. Most people here have probably lost a relative to cancer. To see somebody who should have plenty of years left waste away as I did with my uncle seven years ago is incredibly difficult. At least at the end of it you can try to make sense of it and accept it. I don’t think I’d ever be able to accept or make sense of a suicide in my family and I’m pretty sure the rest of my family wouldn’t either. Even if I wanted to do it, could I live with doing that to my family? Obviously not, I wouldn’t have to. But they would.
Souness mentioned at half time that the two of them were great friends at Newcastle together with Shearer and Harper.
A fine post Sid,
However, If someone commits suicide I would suggest that they are acting irrationally and not of clear mind. Yes, if they thought about the consequences of sucide on their family and friends they would in all probability not go through with it. I would suggest that those that fall into the former category may be suffering from depression/mental illness that may or may not be known about.
We don’t know. I’m sure in some cases the person believes they are acting entirely rationally.
It would be interesting to compare staistics on suicide between now and say, 200 years ago or even 500 years ago. Obviously we don’t have those statistics but it would be interesting to see and compare to what extent modern society has had on the prevalence of suicide.
It’s impossible to make generalisations when it comes to this, I think. Look at Hunter S. Thompson. Some people just want to make the choice to end their lives. And they can do it with a completely rational mind.
People were committing suicide thousands of years ago though, Sidney. It’s always been around. Sure they considered it a noble act back in the day.
I accept that.
I don’t think that’s a fine post by sid. I don’t think anybody can conclude with certainty about what caused him or anyone to commit suicide and attribute blame. I personally wouldn’t judge anyone having never walked in their shoes. I’m just sorry for Gary Speed and his family and friends.
Agree with that.
I dont think that anyone who commits suicide is acting rationally. They may think that they are acting rationally when taking that decision, but to anyone else it is an irrational decision.
- 1 on all of that. dont agree with sids rationale that the person comitting suicide is being selfish and is leaving the family to suffer. that is the view of someone looking in with sound mind. if the person doing the suicide thought that, they wouldnt go ahead with it. they are suffering some form of depression and think that its their only way out. its an easy option to be angry at them and call them seflish. but they were goping through torment, and werent of sound mind. its a truly terrible thing to happen, and I’ve seen it happen locally to an awful lot of lads. there is no logic to it, but you only wished they would seek advice or help and not go as far as they do. sympathies from me are with Gary Speed and his family and friends.
Nobody is concluding anything.
What about euthanasia and that Dignitas place in Suisse, fenners?
I think thats a different argument altogether thraw. If someone has a terminal illness and death is the envitable conclusion, then i can see how someone of sound mind would make that decision (to save family and friends from watching them suffer).
I’m not saying people should be angry. I would find it hard not to be in some way angry. You can be angry and sympathetic towards a person at the same time.
Is it fair to say that some people who commit suicide are of sound mind and some are not? Some are thinking rationally, some are not. Some definitely want to die, some aren’t sure whether they want to die or not, some, like that chap who was on Vincent Browne, the chap who threw himself off the Golden Gate Bridge, don’t really want to die at all.
I would argue that a desire to no longer be alive is a terminal illness of sorts.
There’s a variety of reasons why people end their lives, it’s not always mental illness. Some people do it because they can’t face up to the mistakes/lifestyle choices they’ve made.
It’s the ones who suffer from mental illness that I’d sympathise with, it must be hell to make you go through with something like that, for a father of two young kids to end his life like that, it must be hell. It’s just so tragic and there is nothing so sombering as death by suicide.
I would would say that a desire like that is a mental illness as opposed to a physical illness.