Back of the Creggan shops will do
Sinn Fein are not the party to bring a United Ireland until such times as demographics make it a foregone conclusion. Up the Ra style shit isnāt going to convince non-bigots up there to vote for a United Ireland
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1% of DUP voters want NI out of the UK. Probably includes Mickey Harte and that Tyrone ladies GAA player.
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Thatās a fair point ā but whether Sinn Fein people shout up the ra or not, the establishment here continually drag up the past as a bogeyman argument. The old halls of power dangle it in front of people at every opportunity - how does SF move forward in that scenario? RTE and the press are just as bad.
I agree RTE have been shameful at times. But at least donāt give them any fuel for the fire. Even singing rebel songs is harmless enough but if their goal, which it is, is a peaceful United Ireland then they have to appeal to the people who arenāt on either side up north
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Should SF drop various RUC, B Specials and British atrocities like Bloody Sunday then?
SF donāt actually want to āmove onā. SF want to put their various atrocities alongside the WoI and to normalise the likes of Gerry Adams.
That will set a UI back. If SF want a UI, they need to leave the stage.
This is impossible for them though.
Politics is simply a new avenue for their movement. Everything up to it was justified, apparently.
Adams has consistently called for a truth and reconciliation type thing that they had in South Africa where all victims of all atrocities get a fair hearing. Official Oirland and UK have always said no. I donāt think you can cherry pick here tbf. Whilst the current situation pertains then the SF people will continue their one sided approach to victims, itās up to us to change that. Why wonāt we?
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Why were the murderers of the likes of Robert McCartney and Paul Quinn protected?
Why are known members of the Army Council advising SF on the likes of the RHI?
The IRA never said they were disbanded. Their last statement in 2005 said they had decommissioned, thatās it.
The feeling most people have is that whilst SF are committed to peace, they will protect their own no matter the atrocity. They will continue to give roles to senior IRA leaders. Itās clandestine and itās recent.
Yet Sinn Fein supporters on social media saw no contradiction with bringing up Paul Williamsā treatment of Maurice McCabe.
But thatās not relevant to SF continually saying āmove onā (whilst chanting āup the Raā) when IRA atrocities are brought up but then bringing up other atrocities whenever they can.
If SF are truly republican in the real meaning of the word then they need to start engaging more with Unionists on a non-political level. It cant be an Island for all until that happens ā Iāve raised this before in conversations in the cuman and with more prominent SF people locally and their response was that no one faction or section of society is more special than another - gay/straight/ - black/white - catholic/protestant - it doesnt matter in a republic, we are all citizens.
While thereās merit in that, the situation here has a unique set of historical circumstances - you cant expect Unionists to just freely take up their place in this golden republic of equal citizens - they have to be won over and trust has to be earned. Respecting their Britishness while getting them to engage more with their Irishness is the line we need to walk.
I think thatās where we here in the South could really show some leadership - up to 20/30 years ago Protestant was almost a dirty word hereā People dont give a fuck any more but weāve done little to celebrate contributions made to society by our protestant brethren ā¦ while that brings us back to the argument of why they stand out more than any group in society - for the sake of closure and reconciliation and the possibility of forging a new path - I think one day a year to celebrate our Protestant brothers and sisters would do no harm. Keep it to cultural events - ā¦ The battle of the Boyne exhibition was a touch of this ā¦ while it may be a small thing to do, it would be making a big gesture across the borderā¦ The tri-colur is supposed to be representative of Green and Orange ā letās make it happen.
Social media is a cess-pit.
Of course itās relevant. Letās get it done and we donāt have this constant tit for tat rubbish. I wonāt be shocked to learn that our government covered up the Dublin/Monaghan murders for expediency for example, but if exposing things like this bring justice to IRA victims then itās a price worth paying.
As for the up the RA thing, I wouldnāt expect anything else. I donāt believe any of the SF crew are genuinely apologetic about the IRA and neither do you so I donāt understand why you persist tbh?
The biggest blocker to truth and reconciliation is the British State ā Tim doesnt want to know about that tho. Fuck knows how many deaths the British State were involved in, including the Dublin and Monaghan bombings ā it suits them to continue to play the IRA blame game as iād say the truth of what they got up to would rock both sides of the Irish sea.
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Except you arenāt practising what you preach.
Itās standard stuff.
The role of the British state and indeed the Irish state in the Troubles is a hell of a lot murkier than the role of the IRA. We know what the IRA did. We donāt know what the British and Irish states did. Well we know, but we donāt know, if you catch my drift. And we must never, ever know, if you catch another drift.
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I have better things to be doing tbh. As should you. You are not going to change anyoneās mind on here so why bother. I want a complete transparent justice for all victims, if you or SF people want to concentrate solely on vitcims on one side then fire ahead after that. Until that day its all politicsing of victims which is shameful, on both sides.
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I donāt think I ever said I did.
Do you I want Bloody Sunday forgotten or not pursued? Absolutely not.
SF want the opposite though.
And you continue to wag your finger in one direction, just like the establishment have done since Fianna Fail took office in the 30s.
You have a great comparison with today there. Finna Fail were classed as shadowy gunmen and communists who would destroy the countryās fortunes if they were let into power in the 30sā and what happened, they became the establishment. Their past crimes forgotten and now they are true heroes of the republicā¦ allegedly.
The civil war parties divided the state among themselves. Built their kingdoms. Sent their kids to private schools. Lived in big houses and affluence. They did everything in their power to retain this power and while out of one side of their mouth played up 1916-21 to legitimize themselves, out of the other they played down any talk of the north or anything that threatened their place in the sun.
One of the greatest crimes on this Island was the abandoning of the nationalist community in the north to live in a gerrymandered Orange state and the hands of the violent mobs and B-Specials ā¦ Iām not gonna go into justifying any atrocity or why nationalist communities had to arm themselves in the first place ā but weāve come out the other side of that and weāve asked all parties to pursue their goals through the ballot boxā¦ and now what do we do, we pull the rug again - we tell nationalists in the north especially that we dont give a fuck about the GFA really or you and your attempts to engage with the ballot boxā¦ what an absolute crock of shit. Thereās scores of people who vote for SF, north and south, who never engaged with violence and never would ā what are you saying to these people?
Of course questions need to be asked about specific murders - healing and answers still need to happen- but thereās a very blinkered view in the south of blaming everything at the feet of SF. Iād argue this fits a much older mantra stretching back to OāConnell and his army of churchmen and the middle class - they took up the Victorian mantle of respecting respectability and thatās a very Irish trait since then - anything that reflects being lower class or Irish is looked down on - whether it be language /accent , clothes /appearance, rural-ness or traditional - itās all backwards and shamefulā¦ this often quoted and believed Catholic guilt that gets bandied about is wrong. The Italians and Spanish dont have itā¦ itās actaully an Irish guilt, beaten into people for generations for the way they look, sound or for what they believe. Any attempt of these people to mobilize is often spat on by the media or wider public - and shows how ingrained it is in the Irish mindset now. Thank fuck the GAA is a space where all this can exist.
Thereās more than enough evidence to show that hundreds of murders of innocent people were carried out on this Island during the troubles by the hands of the British state - two bombings in the south carried out by another country and all we continue to get from those in power is IRA / SF ā¦ and thatās not trying to excuse anything the IRA did or play tit for tat with atrocities as youāre trying to do ā¦ iām just showing how it fits a narrative stretching back 200 years, where we dare not question respectability and accept what they sayā¦ itās actually outrageous that we so willingly accept those two bombings in particular and shows a lot about the control the civil war parties have/ had over the narrative.
Iām all for putting it all out on the table ā to let the past finally be the past ā but you and yours truly dont want it - youāre brainwashed to never accept it because youāre anti Irish in everything you do and think.
Whether you agree with SF policies is one thing - but the party is engaging with the ballot boxed as agreed upon ā itās been 22 years ---- how long more do you think you can marginalize them and in doing so keep some element of hostility alive ?.. and yes, thatās what happens when you continue to marginalize people ā your mindset, to exclude SF from power and society, is what we did to nationalists in the 6 in the first place, now youāre advocating we do the same to over half a million people in the south and all based on history and your own prejudices The current generation dont give two fucks about the past ā they have a great shot at building a society that is trouble free for the first time in nearly 500 yearsā¦ give redress to victims but for fucksake, lets move on from hundreds of years of shite. Iāll even go to a Leinster game with you in the name of reconciliation.
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