[QUOTE=âdodgy-keeper, post: 932832, member: 1552â]Oh look who it is, someone desperate to fit in to attain some popularity on here wades into a debate to slag off someone with an alternative point of view. Giving it the big 'un and berating others, rather than constructively debating the issue at hand. âdodgyâs opinion is not shared by the majority on this thread so Iâll try and score a few brownie points and call him a cunt rather than put forward my own coherent arguments as to why he is wrong here.â
You are pathetic, gutless cowardly prick. I disagree with a lot of what is said on various topics but I donât need to throw a strop whenever someone says something I donât like. âbile and hatred, giant pool of hatred in which he will eventually drown.â Calm the fuck down you drama queen.
As for the Hillsborough issue no-one is glorifying in the death of 96 people at a sporting event. Absolutely terrible what happened. My issue is how Liverpool FC and their fans wonât accept even a tiny amount of responsibility for that day (not the full blame as it was not all their fault but a small acknowledgement that too many supporters had showed up and that had tragically contributed to what happened). It was the South Yorkshire Police, it was the FA, it was Thatcher, it was The Sun, it was the match officials - everyone elses fault. Again I repeat no-one deserved to die, the police made terrible mistakes but people arriving without tickets inadvertantly led to the innocent people at the front getting crushed. Thatâs all I am saying.
Heysel - wasnât their fault then either. It was UEFA, it was the National Front, it was Chelsea, it was the stadium.
Athens 2007 - it was the authorities fault, it was UEFAâs fault.
The last independent commission which absolved Liverpool fans was chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool - how is that independent. The victims deserve to be remembered, no-one should suffer the way the victims and their families have but this campaign for Justice almost appears, to me anyway, to be an attempt to shift blame on to every other party when a tacit acknowledgement that a number of factors - one of them being ticketless and drunk fans present - contributed to what happened. Instead it is an attempt to totally and categorically foist blame on everyone else. Thatâs my issue.
Raising any valid points like this is used by some as an insult to the 96. Absolute bollocks. They were the unfortunate victims, no-one has said or is saying they were responsible for their deaths.[/QUOTE]
Just watch the footage. The fans turned up as normal and in jovial spirits. The fans turned up well before kickoff but there were delays due to major road works but the vast majority were there from 2.15 onwards. The police were undermanned. There were 6/7 turnstiles for 20 odd thousand. The new chief police officer on duty froze and let the crowd outside build up and up and up. The new police chief in charge did not call for a delayed kick-off as had been done on previous occasions. The new police chief in charge ORDERED the gate opened at about 6 mins to kickoff. The fans WALKED in casually, no one rushed in. The gate to the middle pens was unguarded and open, the new chief police officer on duty should have had it locked as was done on previous years. The crowd, like any crowd would do walked straight ahead into the visible entrance to the pens behind the goals, which were already crowded. The pens on either side were half empty and enough to take the crowd and if they had been directed there nothing would have happened. The police officers on duty have said there was no drunkeness, no mob forcing open a gate, no rush in by a mob.
They are the facts my friend - if you want to suggest that maybe 50-100 fans without tickets caused all that you must be out of your head- Theyâve already estimated that the numbers there were roughly the same as tickets allocated⌠It was complete police negligence on the day, negligence that was narrowly avoided on three occasions previous because experienced officers were on duty, had delayed kickoff and also because the barriers were not there to prevent fans moving to the side.
As for your dig about Athens- It didnât exist until Scrunchie posted up his post, now you are screaming blue murder about it as if it is a fact youâve known all your life-- I donât know how many more times it needs to be said- Heysel was a disgrace, and Liverpool fans were predominately to blame- It has nothing to do with Hillsborough- the evidence is there on camera and in the statements of the police and fans to show there was no hooliganism on display bar the odd scally that you would get at any game. Liverpool fans, no more so than any fans, are no angels, but Hillsborough was nothing to do with crowd trouble.
Thatâs the last I will post on this thread.
