You’re a simpleton.
Name us these “much better options in the majority of positions” please.
No, simpletons cheer on a team that lose 4-0, even bigger simpletons sit at home condoning that sort of ridiculous behaviour.
Coleman, McCarthy, McLean, Ireland, Long, Best, Holohan, Westwood, Kelly, Clarke, Duffy, Harte, Delap, Reid.
Who were the other options available?
In addition, is it the fault of the fans that these players werent used?
I guess if you were there you’d have just fcuked your ticket and walked out when it went 2-0. Well thats one way to react i suppose…i cant say id have any respect for anyone like that.
Trappatoni picked a side to get him to the World Cup in 2010 - they very nearly did against long odds in Paris. He kept that squad together(taking into account the loyalty etc. they had shown him im sure) to get him to the Euros. Now i dont disagree with you that we had some sh1t on that pitch tonight - in my view this Irish side has been pretty brutal to watch over the past couple of years and the personnel are seriously lacking. But i do have to say the options werent exactly huge for him. Coleman, McCarthy and McLean were the most likely to make a difference but noone had fcuking heard of McLean pretty much prior to us actually qualifying, McCarthy appeared disinterested even after making his debut and while Coleman does look like a good talent would he have made that much of a difference. None of those 3 actually got us to the Euros anyway.
Walters and Long probably should be part of our side going forward but they werent going to set the world alight either. My point here is, for all of those i’ve named…i dont think the results would have been a whole lot different in that technically none of those players would have the quality of what they faced. Infact, when we look to make the World Cup in 2014 it remains to be seen if these lads will provide any success in that regard as im not sure they’ll be good enough to give us qualification. Again, the real point here is that we have simply regressed to a pretty mediocre side. We’re miles off Spain etc.
Looking back on the entire campaign lads, it’s hard to disagree that we got very lucky to make it to the finals.
A good qualifying group draw, a miraculous draw in Moscow, a Slovakia team that made it through to the last 16 of the previous world cup - beating the eyeties on the way - in poor form, drawing Estonia in the playoffs. Blessed to be there and found out when we arrived.
As it stands, we are a wholehearted but limited team, there’s no point in sticking the knife in at this stage, the crucial issue now is how the squad and the playing system evolves from hewre into the WC qualifying campaign.
Trap has earned another crack at it and calls for his head are premature but some things cannot be overlooked any more.
Stephen Ward is not good enough for this level. Someone said to me tonight that Everton are looking at him for 5 mil to replace Baines when he eventually leaves. No way is he worth that much and I’d be very surprised if David Moyes thought so as well.
Glen Whelan not up to this level either and Paul Green getting a run bewildered me as much as it did everyone else.
Robbie tried his heart out but the end of the road is coming. Walters to be fair won a lot that came his way and must be the option ahead of Doyle for the foreseeable future.
McGeady, infuriating. The one attacker with genuine skill and trickery but if he could just improve his option taking. The one time in the first half that he got the ball in space on the wing, he waited for a defender tto get to him and tried to beat him rather than whipping in the cross when he had the time to do so.
Like the Croatia game, the goals conceded were awful. Panicy defending for the first, no-one took charge and Ward was rapt in his admiration for Torres as he sailed past him.
Why O’Shea came into the middle for the build up to the second when there were three green shirts already there was beyond me. McGeady not tuned in for the third at all. The fourth was just dreadful.
Richard Dunne is almost a spent force as well and the worry is where his replacement will come from.
As for the supporters, fair play to them. There are some dreadfully churlish cunts on this thread and elsewhere who will take the keane cunt line and wonder why they were singing at all, but fuck them and their piss poor wind ups.
The lads put their all into this and well done to them. Let’s concentrate on the next campaign and what we would like to see. Things will have to change, lets hope they do, and for the better.
Stephen Ireland doesnt want to play for the country and has regressed significantly from his days at Man Citeh.
Leon Best is no better than Simon Cox.
Wes Holohan…ffs?
Shay Given is the first choice keeper for Villa and you’d have Westwood ahead of him? Would that have made a huge difference tonight?
Dont get me started on Stephen Kelly, or Harte, Delap is at best a sub for Stoke…
As for Andy Reid…please tell me this is WUM.
Im not even going to bother…none of those players would have made any fcuking difference to the result tonight…they are not at the same level as that Spain side. Whatever difference they’d have made against Croatia i dont know having watched them in the past 2 games they’re a decent outfit.
No I would have stayed to the end in complete despair, I would have applauded the Spanish as they left the pitch and I would have departed the stadium distraught. I would have been in no mood, and it’s absolutely no place to stand up and start singing for our nation who just took their worst drubbing in a major tournament. Why is it that the Irish psyche is to celebrate mediocrity and in this case just complete and utter shite. There is nothing, NOTHING, to celebrate or sing about on a night like tonight.
Thats your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I dont want to go reading over posts again so i’ll ask you - what did you expect coming into this tournament from this Irish team?
I dont disagree with everything you have said by the way. I would play different personnel to Trappatoni myself so im not just having a go at you for the sake of it.
Steven Ireland may have regressed since his days at City but he would be a far better option than Whelan/Andrews/Green etc, same story goes for Wesley.
Leon Best is a significantly better footballer than Simon Cox.
Reid was a joke, I was going to add Jason Byrne in there too.
I’d have Westwood ahead of an unfit Shay Given all day long. It would have made a difference tonight as he wouldn’t have conceded the first, he wouldn’t have punched the ball back on to the penalty spot for the 2nd, and he wouldn’t have let that pass into the middle of the goal go past him.
Stephen Kelly and Harte would have been better options than we had starting tonight, as would Clarke. Delap has a good weapon in his throw, Duffy is a far better center half than St Ledger and will be a huge player for Ireland in the not too distant future.
You’re missing the point here anyway, I agree we had no chance against Spain tonight, nor do I think we should have been more competitive. My issue is with die hard fans cheering and singing on a night where Ireland were embarrassed (unjustly as we have better players than that) and given our biggest hiding in our history of major championships.
What did you make of the fans tonight TTK?
I didn’t expect us to win any game, I expected us to get 1 point. I didn’t envisage us being as embarrassed as badly as we have been.
:lol: Touché
I’ve not read any posts here so far. But we’ve gotten worse since Paris. Although we have tightened up at the back the performances against the big teams (Russia, Slovakia) was shite compared to Italy, Bulgaria and France. Croatia and Spain has been embarrassing. We only had two yellows or something like that tonight. We should have 11 at least. And maybe a red. Never seen an Irish team piss its pants like that. Desperate.
Ireland opted out. His choice, so until he decides otherwise, he does not enter into the equation.
Neon Leon has hardly had alook in at Newcastle all season.
Mentioning Reid just shows how bad of a piss taker you are. Had you tried to cover your cuntishness and said that it was Stephen Reid you were referring to, it might have been a little funnier.
You know for sure that Westwood would have been better than Given tonight? For sure, no less?
Duffy has hardly had a start in league football and you want to throw him into a European championship tournament ahead of St Ledger who has performed admirably in an Ireland jersey thus far?
Delap can throw the ball far and that is all.
Clarke has potential but the way he’s going, he’s the next John O’Shea. Do we really need another John O’Shea on the field?
Stop being a cunt. You’re being a cunt. Stop being a cunt.
So I suppose you think we were great oul chaps out there tonight trying are best. Our nations best 11 doing the country proud. Sure get out the tri-colour and give us an oul song there Piles :rolleyes: FOAD
Re the fans. I’ve been to some great sporting occassions over the years and i’ve always stood loyal to my side.
I think you have to take tonight differently to a Premiership match etc. where a side loses 4-0.
20-40k people(mainly in their 20s and 30s) took off to Poland from Ireland and all over the world in this competition. Going out there, blind optimism might have been their basis in terms of how we’d get on but when any football fan got the draw we knew Ireland had the short straw. Expectation was very limited and for the most part i think everyone realised the group stage was where we’d meet our maker.
We could have done better against Croatia, i felt we were far worse against them than we were tonight.
But tonight we were on a hiding second to nothing. We had no chance against Spain by any stretch of the imagination and the fans going to the game i feel were aware of that. Now there options are to 1)not bother going to the game 2) go and leave early 3) go and make as much noise and as much of the experience as they could or 4) go and start a riot of some such.
If i was a player, the best fans for me would take option 3 and make as much out of the experience as they could knowing we may not see another international competition for a while again. This was all about the party. We had little or no chance tonight or in this competition. Id say the same diehards who have been going to games for years started the sing-song knowing full well we were focked 3 ways from Tuesday. It took hold and it appears the entire Irish support started singing. For me this was a stunning show of support as opposed to fans who riot, leave early, sit on their hands, etc. Im sure there were a few who were distraught. I wouldnt have one bad word to say to a fan who went and was disappointed, nor would i have a bad word for those who sang their hearts out at the end…fair play to them! At the end of the day, the fans made the best of the experience tonight, they knew it was coming. Id be proud of fans like that…but thats me!
Finally some sort of logical explanation for what happened tonight, it’s in part the first reasonable counter post I’ve read. However your options 1-4, are not the only options and do not include option 5. Go to the game, cheer anything positive we do, applaud with respect at the end, but don’t go completely overboard by singing raucously in support and the end of a drubbing. Especially when we could and should have done things differently. Frustration and disappointment should have been the order of the day, not a laissez-faire attitude that we did well to get here anyway so let’s sing a few songs.
Stunning retort Chuckles. Zero argument in favour of all the players you previously suggested.
Jog on with your piss poor cunt keane impression. Some horseflesh needs whipping somewhere for the amusement of toffs. When they’ve been finally flogged to death, send the prime cuts over to me. Horse fillet is quite delicious.
Go to bed, mate.
I will. You’re clearly struggling here.
I’ll give a more reasoned reply if you want tomorrow or over the weekend TTK but i feel the big issue here is that the vast majority of people went with the opinion we had no chance tonight or in the competition overall and decided that they’d sing the Fields of Athenry as a measure of respect for the side which had given them reason to be there by qualifying.
I understand you see it as a laissez-faire attitude in that they shouldnt be happy just to get there but here is where you and most people(certainly those with a footballing knowledge anyway without trying to take a snipe at you) will differ. I didnt give us a bulls chance of getting anything much more than a defeat tonight and if it was more than 4 i wouldnt have been surprised. If i was a big Irish football fan over there(as i’ve said to you i cant claim that) i would still have anticipated a hefty defeat and seen little chance with or without the personnel you’ve mentioned. So id probably have sang along at the end, simpleton that i am and applauded their effort - they gave as much effort as their limitations permitted im afraid - and id probably be in a bar in Gdansk saluting the world class Spaniards and making the most of that trip right now.
So this team would have got a result against that Spanish display? Really?
+1 good post Be Timberin.
The Roy Keane viewpoint that the Irish supporters are only there for a laugh, sure we’ll have the craic, we don’t really know much about the football, and don’t really care as long as we have a few pints and sing the Fields is not only incredibly boring and patronising, but incredibly insulting to the thousands of Irish supporters who in most circumstances I would imagine have made a herculean effort to save the money and make the trip to support a team they knew in all likelihood would not get out of the group.
It was an exceptionally beautiful performance by Spain, unsurprising now in retrospect given the latitiude we gave them. Their workrate when they lost the ball was astonishing for a team that could easily have paced themselves with future matches in mind.
A limited Irish team, an unimaginative and conservative manager didn’t help. There are clearly serious issues with the make up of the team and the tactics we employ and that is of course open for discussion and criticism.
But to insult the supporters for singing a song when all was lost? For fucks sake. What the fuck did you expect the Irish supporters to do? Start leaving after the second goal, so they could go to the nearest watering hole to show the world how the best supporters in the world are the best drinkers? Fuck off.
The “best supporters in the world” line has been used, with some justification at times (during the good times), to deride the Irish supporters. But its become a boring, simple minded and simplistic tag in the last few years. To slag off someone who is probably finding it hard to make ends meet for going to a foreign country to support their national team is disgusting. The Irish supporters reclaimed the tag with this game for themselves.
Fuck the begrudgers.
I will happily admit I sat in front of the TV for the last 9 minutes of that game choked up and shed more than a few tears listening to that support. I have rarely been prouder to be Irish.
All of you boys over there should be proud of yourselves, fair fucking play to you.