[quote=“Garda Sean Horgan”]Thats about it.
It’s gotten so bad that people are thinking that very soon we will see the billions put into AIB and BOI sink away into a void.
Anglo is a complete joke. What they were doing as late as last year is sickening.
It’s no wonder that people are getting out of Irish Banking shares. No-one trusts any figures. Even if their figures get caught out and pointed to the government we now have proof that the minister can ignore it and blame his department.
At the moment thought I think your right about people looking out for themselves.
Yours etc,
GSH.[/quote]
I read something in the paper a few weeks back about letting Anglo become a “Bad Bank”. I can’t remember exactly what it meant it but it seemed to make sense.
A Cork financial advisor charged with money laundering told Gardai that Phil Flynn, a former chairman of Bank of Scotland (Ireland), was the boss behind everything.
Sixty-year-old Ted Cunningham, from Farran, said that he suspected the Sterling he had was part of the money stolen from the Northern Bank in December 2004.
Detective chief superintendent Tony Quilter told the court today that, in an off-camera interview with Gardai, Ted Cunningham said he received a call from a person he didn’t wish to name because of fear for himself and his family.
He collected bags from a Northern man on four separate occasions and, when he brought them back to Cork, he saw they contained Northern Ireland Sterling.
He said he suspected it was from the Northern Bank job and later had it confirmed to him that it was from the Northern Bank and not to worry.
Detective chief superintendent Quilter said that Cunningham breathed a sigh and said that Phil Flynn was the boss behind everything.
He said Phil Flynn told him he would be getting Stg5m and not to panic."
These banking guys are just playing with our economy and when it works out for them they get millions in bonus and when it doesnt’ they retired with millions of a bonus.
I got into the wrong game.
What they are doing is the same as if I went to bank and robbed it knowing that the worst I would have to do is retire from robbing if I got caught. I would not even have to hand the money back.
Not sure I agree with the principal of a toxic bank. if I understand it correctly, this means having a bank that they would fire all the bad debts into and just allow it to wind up? Would that mean the likes of Sean Dunne can saunter away, whistling with his hands in his pockets, not having to worry about the millions he owes?
The likes of him should be chased for every penny of it, if it comes to taking everything he owns in return and fucking himself and Killilea out onto the street then so be it. The people who creamed off the top at everyone elses expense should be the first ones to cough up.
[quote=“manaboutdog”]Not sure I agree with the principal of a toxic bank. if I understand it correctly, this means having a bank that they would fire all the bad debts into and just allow it to wind up? Would that mean the likes of Sean Dunne can saunter away, whistling with his hands in his pockets, not having to worry about the millions he owes?
The likes of him should be chased for every penny of it, if it comes to taking everything he owns in return and fucking himself and Killilea out onto the street then so be it. The people who creamed off the top at everyone elses expense should be the first ones to cough up.[/quote]
Is it definitely Sean Dunne you mean? What did he do? Not being smart, just not sure what his role is.
Agree with the point though, no point in sheltering anyone just by creating false structures.
[quote=“manaboutdog”]Not sure I agree with the principal of a toxic bank. if I understand it correctly, this means having a bank that they would fire all the bad debts into and just allow it to wind up? Would that mean the likes of Sean Dunne can saunter away, whistling with his hands in his pockets, not having to worry about the millions he owes?
The likes of him should be chased for every penny of it, if it comes to taking everything he owns in return and fucking himself and Killilea out onto the street then so be it. The people who creamed off the top at everyone elses expense should be the first ones to cough up.[/quote]
I wouldn’t see Killilea out on the street. Herself and her nice sideboob can stay at my place until she gets back on her feet.
I’m not sure exactly how this bad bank would work but it involved transferring the good loans and deposits out of Anglo and into the other banks, which would technically re-capitalise the other banks. I’m not sure what they said would happen with the bad loans but I think it said they would still be pursued.
As GSH has pointed out it’s worse than that. They didn’t even take a loan. They gave money out and took it back in to inflate their deposit position. That’s fucking disgraceful, particularly considering the shite they were in at the time. I cannot believe that Lenihan’s position is tenable to be honest.
[quote=“therock67”]Is it definitely Sean Dunne you mean? What did he do? Not being smart, just not sure what his role is.
Agree with the point though, no point in sheltering anyone just by creating false structures.[/quote]
I mentioned Sean Dunne, but was really referring to the group of developers who, up to 6 months ago, were held up as poster boys of the celtic tiger.
Dunne hasn’t done anything wrong, but he does owe anglo a shit load of money in the form of what is now basically an unsecured loan, since the value of the ballsbridge site has plumetted. Setting up anglo as a ‘toxic’ bank would be primarily to allow people like this off the hook, not someone who is in arrears on a 200K mortgage for example.
ILP placed the funds on deposit with Anglo on a short term basis to make it look like there deposit base was higher than it actually was.
TO be fair to Lenihan, he should hardly be expected to read the 700 page doc himself, he has a massive dept to do that job for him. Now one of them should def have spotted it and should get the biggest kicking of all time for making him look like an absolute imbecile.
Could anything worse come out about Anglo at this stage!
Media reports indicate that when Sean Quinn couldnt finance the final 10% of the shares he needed to purchase to close off his CFD position a ‘golden circle’ of Anglos biggest clients was set up to buy the shares. Funded by a loan from Anglo, secured by shares in Anglo, on a non recourse basis. Sum total 300 m, that is 270 m + underwater that loan now is, and there total provision for bad debts is c 500 m!! FFS!
One of you auditors might tell me this, is it not a blatant breach of the companies act to borrow money secured by shares in a company you are a director of? If so how many Anglo directors have breached this, and when will they be charged with reckless trading.
[quote=“manaboutdog”]I mentioned Sean Dunne, but was really referring to the group of developers who, up to 6 months ago, were held up as poster boys of the celtic tiger.
Dunne hasn’t done anything wrong, but he does owe anglo a shit load of money in the form of what is now basically an unsecured loan, since the value of the ballsbridge site has plumetted. Setting up anglo as a ‘toxic’ bank would be primarily to allow people like this off the hook, not someone who is in arrears on a 200K mortgage for example.[/quote]
Not strictly true MAD.
Toxic bank would take all the ‘toxic loans’ from the other banks at a heavy discount. So a 200 mill loan would be transferred into toxic bank at 100 m say. SO Bank A takes a 100m writedown on its current position now, against its profits, and moves on back into market to start lending again, without a huge amount of capital tied up ini facilities in default.
Toxic Bank B then goes about recovering the 100 m debt, so assuming they have done there due diligence right they probably have assesed case and reckoned they could get 120 m back. SO they just act as one big receivership as such. They work out all the shitty loans and profit from any surplus they recover over the discounted value they have paid.
It seems like a reasonable idea alright, but it would need massive work to estimate the exact position of every loan and how much could realistically be got back out of it. Im sure there are huge flaws with it as well but Im not an economist so cant really explain that for you.
Id imagine if we went down this route there would need to be massively restrictive conditions put on the good banks as to who and what they would lend into, and they would be looking at a good few years without making any profits they would have made such losses on day the loans were put into toxic bank.
One of the things that really annoys me about all this shit with the banks is that when you look at all the crimminals (bank chiefs) it’s extremely doubtful if they would do anything differently if they went back in time and were faced with the same lending / bank policy decisions again. They’ve had the power, lived the life, made their money and headed (or are about to head) off into the sunset with not so much as a question to answer while the economy is gone to pot and the county’s reputation has suffered irreparable damage. Why would they foresake market share, obscene bonuses and share options whose value will increase exponentially for acting responsibly when there are no consequences. In any other walk of life when somebody commits such heinous acts and is found out, they are punished and they have regrets - mainly because they end up in prison or get ostracised and it makes them think about what they’ve done. But these guys, they don’t give a shit. And why would they?
If say 10 of these lads were hanged in Dublin Castle and their heads stuck on spikes, I think that would sate alot of the public anger out there. It would give a boost to the whole country.
[quote=“dancarter”]Either you or me has picked this up wrong.
ILP placed the funds on deposit with Anglo on a short term basis to make it look like there deposit base was higher than it actually was.
TO be fair to Lenihan, he should hardly be expected to read the 700 page doc himself, he has a massive dept to do that job for him. Now one of them should def have spotted it and should get the biggest kicking of all time for making him look like an absolute imbecile.
Could anything worse come out about Anglo at this stage!
Media reports indicate that when Sean Quinn couldnt finance the final 10% of the shares he needed to purchase to close off his CFD position a ‘golden circle’ of Anglos biggest clients was set up to buy the shares. Funded by a loan from Anglo, secured by shares in Anglo, on a non recourse basis. Sum total 300 m, that is 270 m + underwater that loan now is, and there total provision for bad debts is c 500 m!! FFS!
One of you auditors might tell me this, is it not a blatant breach of the companies act to borrow money secured by shares in a company you are a director of? If so how many Anglo directors have breached this, and when will they be charged with reckless trading.[/quote]
Dan
Go away out of that.
One of two things happened. Either Lenihan didn’t read the report or he did but didn’t realise the significance of the 7bn and is pretending he didn’t read the report in order to appear less stupid-
If he didn’t read the report, he’s being negligent as the minister for Finance. He’s putting the country in hock to keep this bank alive and he’s ultimately responsible for the decision. It was the seminal report written on Anglo ( commissioned by him and his Dept) and he couldn’t be bothered reading it. The buck stops with him. Whether or not someone else should have told him is beside the point. We’re paying him to be the Minister for finance and reading a report is the least he should be doing.
I have my suspicions though that he did read the report but didn’t pick up the significance of the 7bn. Did you hear him saying that even if he did read the report he wouldn’t have realised the significance of the deposit? What a tool. No wonder our country’s debt rating is being downgraded.
His stupidity and negligence is costing the taxpayer.