Irish soccerball nil - That boy Jinky will save us (Part 2)

[myboyblue]

@EstebanSexface

We’re in a trap now where these journalists will hound anyone perceived not to be playing tika taka to massage their own egos

If we were to kill one, it might act as a warning for the others.

[Cheasty]

@Arthur

He seems like an absolute dunderhead but at the time he got the job I don’t think it seemed too outlandish that he got it. If they had decided to go for an Irish manager (which doesn’t seem that ridiculous a thing to do every so often for a self respecting country) there probably weren’t too many other candidates. The problem is Irish soccer itself. He rose to the top of it but the problem is that is a very low bar.i remember a big thing about him at the start was that he was this real intelligent thoughtful guy who had all these opinions about social issues etc. Now maybe he does but he’s genuinely one of the worst speakers I’ve ever laid ears on. I suppose up against noel king and the lads he does seem like a genius. It’s a bit like Rodney with his two gcses in art and maths.

This is actually the problem. There’s this Dougal Maguire red button thing in Irish football where people say to themselves “Why can’t we have some self respect and appoint a League Of Ireland manager? Who says we can’t be as good as anybody else and appoint somebody who came up through the game in this country rather than in England?” It’s one of these things that come up in pub conversations where people are just looking for something to say. “Brian Kerr is doing a great job with the youths, he’d be a good appointment for the senior team, Stephen Kenny is doing great with Dundalk, it’d be nice to see a League Of Ireland manager get the job for a change.”

“It’d be nice.” But “it’d be nice” doesn’t cut it in the real world. Football is a meritocracy and failings are brutally exposed.

What happens in the media influences what happens with the FAI. In the years leading up to Kenny’s appointment there was a steady move towards bringing League Of Ireland figures into RTE’s coverage. They had a vested interest in seeing an LOI figure appointed. The papers hopped on that bandwagon. It’s copy. Newstalk hopped on the bandwagon. Second Captains hopped on the bandwagon probably because they were sick of being perceived as too Premier League orientated and what better way to show your commitment to Irish football than by championing a League Of Ireland man. The consent to push the red button was manufactured.

The problem is League Of Ireland football isn’t remotely up to the standard in the real world and it never will be because of Ireland’s peculiar historical, cultural and geographical situation. Johnny Giles thought he could change things 46 years ago and got nowhere. Pat Dolan thought he could change things and got nowhere. We don’t pick League Of Ireland players for the national team, and neither should we appoint managers from it. You’ve got to prove yourself at higher level, or the very least you have to be somebody of a high status in the game.

[Crutches]

Which one though?

[myboyblue]

@Crutches

Which one though?

Matt Doherty.

[Little_Lord_Fauntleroy]

just to confirm the LOI has a higher ranking than the MNT

[neilld]

Ken Early, twice to be sure.

[neilld]

I don’t think the Newstalk and SC lads even believe their own bullshit either.

[Crutches]

I like Ken, so I’d give him a pass

[Cheasty]

@Bandage

Aside from convincing some impressionable or biased types he’s doing a good job, I can’t think of any notable achievement by Spock in the role. By that I mean something that stood out as being impressive or unlikely to have been done by another manager. You could argue beating Scotland at home but they’re Scotland & that’s literally one thing. It wasn’t backed up & there’s absolutely nothing to suggest any kind of sustained improvement is imminent.

The Scotch had been knocked out of the World Cup 10 days before and their players had probably all been consuming copious quantities of deep fried pizza slices, haggis, Highland Toffee, Irn Bru and Tennents Extra to make them feel better.

[neilld]

I sense he is their leader.

[Arthur]

You’re probably right and maybe this proves it. It’s a phenomenal kick in the guts for the whole league and domestic scene here in general though. His appointment offered a few LOI heads I was talking to genuine hope of a new respect and a proper integrated player pathway. Would be interested to hear what the LOI fans or people involved with football on tfk in general think.

[Cheasty]

@Arthur

You’re probably right and maybe this proves it. It’s a phenomenal kick in the guts for the whole league and domestic scene here in general though. His appointment offered a few LOI heads I was talking to genuine hope of a new respect and a proper integrated player pathway. Would be interested to hear what the LOI fans or people involved with football on tfk in general think.

See I always hear slogans like “proper integrated player pathway” and I genuinely wonder what this jargon is supposed to mean.

Does it mean that players stay in Ireland into, say, their early 20s? You’re unlikely to make it by doing that because you’re not exposed to a high enough level of football.

The problem the League Of Ireland has is that it has England on its doorstep and it can never, ever compete against that. It can’t compete in terms of football standard and it can’t compete in terms of wages. If you’re good enough you want to get out of the League Of Ireland, not stay in it. It’s very hard to develop a league that way.

In saying that, the nature of the problem the League of Ireland faces is not unique. If you take, say, the Brazilian league, this too is now considered second rate. All the top Brazilian players go to Europe. If you’re good enough there you get out to go to Europe at the first chance. But obviously there’s a massive difference in terms of population and general football standard. It’s like the difference between the Leitrim SFC and the Dublin SFC.

[EstebanSexface]

I’m involved with football, I can’t see how Kenny failing here is a kick in the guts for the domestic scene, the fact they appointed him was a minor miracle and show’s they’re willing to take a chance on a LOI manager, Duff will be in the reckoning to succeed him.

The managers position should be awarded on merit, to the best available candidate within the constraints. If that’s a LOI man, then great, if not, it’s not an indictment on the League. Everyone knows the standard of the league.

The real positives for me are when I look at the underage squads and you see a lot more young lads now getting capped out of the academies here

Sounds like your buddies had designs on the senior managers job

[Cheasty]

Funny enough Roddy Collins was one of the few people prepared to tell some home truths about the League Of Ireland. If I remember this conversation rightly, and I think I do, he blithely stated that the League Of Ireland wasn’t near even League Two level in England, and probably below Vauxhall Conference level. I think that’s why it turned into such a barney, it met with furious reaction from Stuey Byrne and Ger O’Brien. The truth is Collins was right.

@Sidney

There was an absolutely smashing barney between Roddy Collins, Stuart Byrne and St. Pat’s captain Ger O’Brien on tonight’s show. Started about 8:40 and ran well over its time until about 9:10. Roddy Collins said Sunday’s final was a terrible match, O’Brien then laid into Collins for Derry playing terrible football when Collins was manager early in the season, and then Byrne laid into Collins towards the end for turning the converstion into a joke, “The FAI must be absolutely laughing at us listening to this. This last half an hour has been pointless. The whole conversation has been an absolute farce.”

[Cheasty]

@EstebanSexface

I’m involved with football, I can’t see how Kenny failing here is a kick in the guts for the domestic scene, the fact they appointed him was a minor miracle and show’s they’re willing to take a chance on a LOI manager, Duff will be in the reckoning to succeed him.

If Damien Duff gets the Irish job it won’t be off the back of managing Shelbourne, it’ll be because he’s Damien Duff and he’s an Irish football legend who made a serious impact at the World Cup finals and won the Premier League. His time playing under Jose Mourinho would be of more benefit to him managing Ireland than his time managing Shelbourne.

Even with Duff’s legendary status it would be a total gamble, he has no managerial record at any decent level.

[Little_Lord_Fauntleroy]

eh, spock was called out as a dud by the Rovers fans

[EstebanSexface]

is he a manager in the LOI or not?

[caulifloweredneanderthal]

Spock will probably end up back managing Dundalk to LOI titles

[Julio_Geordio]

Be funny if he took over Bohs and got them relegated

[StoneCold]

@Cheasty

The only exception to all this is the singular figure of Damien Richardson, who sounds like a working class lad from Dublin who was hothoused by Betty Ann Norton and then the Smurfit Business School before doing a certificate at DBS in The History Of Ancient Greece.

Damien Richardson seems like the kind of lad who would have a vinyl collection of Andean Panpipe records and would be able to talk at length about the strengths and weaknesses of each