Is Major War at its starting point?

Current Affairs
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Could this plane being shot down, and the clear blame for it being pointed at Putin and Russia be the start of something far more serious?

The fact that the investigators were shot at yesterday trying to investigate and gain entry to the site is very agressive behaviour. Surely Putin can’t be too happy with these rebels. I thought he actually looked quite rattled in his statement and his blaming of Ukraine was extremely weak.

The sad thing is, its very very clear that the world media believes these 300 approx people are of more value than the 300 approx that have already died in Gaza.

The world is at its most fucked in my lifetime at least.

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Doubt it. Russia is going through a serious identity crisis at the moment, that’s all that is happening here in the macro sense. China has other things on it’s mind like becoming a modern highly developed economy and would not back the Russians in a fight right now, no way, especially against the yanks who still piss all over them and the Russians combined militarily and would likely have the support of India, Israel, Japan, S Korea, South America and the EU. The Chinese are no mugs and won’t be getting involved. As things are right now, they are simply biding their time.

All this that’s going on now is, if anything, the excuse the West has been waiting for to really turn the screw on Putin, it will be interesting to see how he plays it. I have a feeling he’ll be alright somehow. As for Israel cleansing Gaza, that just has a sense of inevitability about it since the Zionist approach was embraced after WW2. It’s utterly wrong but unless the Israeli’s lose the run of themselves altogether this will not cause any undue alarm in the corridors of power around the world because not enough people care about it, that’s the simple truth. Oh, people are killing each other in the Holy Land, well there’s a fucking shock.

I wouldn’t say the World is any more fucked up than it’s ever been to be honest.

1 Like
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People aren’t any more fucked up. The harm they can do is getting ramped up by the arms industry with every generation.

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I agree with your arms point.
However I disagree with people not being more fucked up. A huge majority Of people fall for big government flag waving and scare mongering. I think people are becoming more and more nationalistic but I bet if you asked most of them you wouldn’t get a decent reason for their pride. Aussies and Americans being my largest experience and they haven’t a clue. The irish are not much better and similarly you hear lads talk about very flat an regurgitated jingoistic views.
These are the clowns who vote in the types of governments we have now. They know no better and all politics is just top level marketing.

Not that people were any smarter in the past, but they didn’t have all the media horse shite driven down their throats. Nobody delves into anything to seek truth anymore (well activist types do, but still a minority) and just are happy to accept the very first thing they are told about anything.

I think that has changed.

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[QUOTE=“Lazarus, post: 985986, member: 286”]Doubt it. Russia is going through a serious identity crisis at the moment, that’s all that is happening here in the macro sense. China has other things on it’s mind like becoming a modern highly developed economy and would not back the Russians in a fight right now, no way, especially against the yanks who still piss all over them and the Russians combined militarily and would likely have the support of India, Israel, Japan, S Korea, South America and the EU. The Chinese are no mugs and won’t be getting involved. As things are right now, they are simply biding their time.

All this that’s going on now is, if anything, the excuse the West has been waiting for to really turn the screw on Putin, it will be interesting to see how he plays it. I have a feeling he’ll be alright somehow. As for Israel cleansing Gaza, that just has a sense of inevitability about it since the Zionist approach was embraced after WW2. It’s utterly wrong but unless the Israeli’s lose the run of themselves altogether this will not cause any undue alarm in the corridors of power around the world because not enough people care about it, that’s the simple truth. Oh, people are killing each other in the Holy Land, well there’s a fucking shock.

I wouldn’t say the World is any more fucked up than it’s ever been to be honest.[/QUOTE]
I could be reading it wrong and maybe it’s a media/social media thing, but I do believe more and more people are caring about Gaza and everything that goes with it. I see and hear more people talk about it and certainly more concern. That could be my age and profile of friends and acquaintances, but that’s the impression I get.

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I dont know, man. People think that every time something happens but I dont think nearly enough people care in any meaningful way to make any difference at all.

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Putin is trying to make a name for himself. Diverting attention from an economy tanking and very oil revenue dependent.

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What is the story on the Russian economy balbec?

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[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 985991, member: 273”]I agree with your arms point.
However I disagree with people not being more fucked up. A huge majority Of people fall for big government flag waving and scare mongering. I think people are becoming more and more nationalistic but I bet if you asked most of them you wouldn’t get a decent reason for their pride. Aussies and Americans being my largest experience and they haven’t a clue. The irish are not much better and similarly you hear lads talk about very flat an regurgitated jingoistic views.
These are the clowns who vote in the types of governments we have now. They know no better and all politics is just top level marketing.

Not that people were any smarter in the past, but they didn’t have all the media horse shite driven down their throats. Nobody delves into anything to seek truth anymore (well activist types do, but still a minority) and just are happy to accept the very first thing they are told about anything.

I think that has changed.[/QUOTE]

More nationalistic than Nazi Germany?

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A lot of state or quasi state companies, billions creamed off by the oligarchs. As economies become less oil dependent through fracking etc will be a loss of revenues. Give em a couple of years yet.

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@caoimhaoin , ok lets think
a few people killed in the middle east, a plane being shot down over Russia - whoa Hitler invades Poland as @Tassotti would say, do you really think the world gives a fuck when you see the events below occurred and there were no protests on the streets, no one complaining on here

  • In Syria, hundreds of thousands of people have died in the last 3 years, the guy doing it even used chemical fucking weapons on his own people and no one cares…where are the protests? in august 2011 US/UK etc put together a plan to demilitarize Assad of WMD that he has taken the piss out of, any attempts of intervention on the West’s behalf would have been met with “stop the war” protests, however Assad just goes on raping, torturing, gasing and murdering at will, the fellas he is fighting arent much better… does anyone care? anyone got the balls to send a fucking aid flotilla to the Syrian coast? you’re damn right they wont… double standards wouldnt you think?

in Egypt in 2011 there was a so called “revolution” where a bunch of murdering maniacs the Muslim Brotherhood got rid of Mubarak, i was attacked by you and a few others on here when i stated this would be a disaster and the power vacuum created would lead to martial law and political chaos and the deaths of thousands… oh but this was the “arab spring” , the “revolution” , “pray for those in Tahir square”… meanwhile what has happended, ill give you an example, In April a court in egypt sentenced 500 people to death w/o trial in one sitting… any protests? no… of course not. there was mass murder Liverpool style at a football game, anyone protest against that… not on your life…
Egypt is now fucking chaos - does anyone care ? no… thousands of people are dead… kev do you really think a boring war in Gaza and a plane going down are going to change things, nice to protest against yes as you have Israel and Russia but in the big picture i think not

In Iraq , a group called ISIS are pillaging their way thru the country, torturing, killing, raping men, women and children and are expanding into Syria, its all going quite well for them, itll go even better if the US/UK decides to try to stop them, thousands willl tale to the streets with " stop the US imprialiasm in the middle east" and will in effect by supporting ISIS… i really fucking hate the world sometimes…

In Darfur and South Sudan there is wore, in Kurdistan Erdogan is fucking at something evil, but no one cares kev… it is horrific,

people will meekly protest against Putin BUT if the US got involved he will be the victim…

bottom line, there will be no war - the world is a fucked up place

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Mickee, what is the point on turkey/erdogan and Kurdistan?

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Hard to believe but there are less people killed in wars now than in recent centuries. More media now of course.

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I don’t think a world conflict will occur as while geographically relatively close the terrible situations in iraq, the holy land and Ukraine are not in any way connected. The only way it could turn that way is if ISIS consolidated power then turned their attention to Israel. Sadly when its not white people being slaughtered itll never dominate coverage, thats why the plane will be to the forefront for a while yet, that incident directly affected rich white westerners. Christians are being killed in the holy land and africa but that draws no reaction from the white christian west it seems.

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[QUOTE=“mickee321, post: 986019, member: 367”]@caoimhaoin , ok lets think
a few people killed in the middle east, a plane being shot down over Russia - whoa Hitler invades Poland as @Tassotti would say, do you really think the world gives a fuck when you see the events below occurred and there were no protests on the streets, no one complaining on here

  • In Syria, hundreds of thousands of people have died in the last 3 years, the guy doing it even used chemical fucking weapons on his own people and no one cares…where are the protests? in august 2011 US/UK etc put together a plan to demilitarize Assad of WMD that he has taken the piss out of, any attempts of intervention on the West’s behalf would have been met with “stop the war” protests, however Assad just goes on raping, torturing, gasing and murdering at will, the fellas he is fighting arent much better… does anyone care? anyone got the balls to send a fucking aid flotilla to the Syrian coast? you’re damn right they wont… double standards wouldnt you think?

in Egypt in 2011 there was a so called “revolution” where a bunch of murdering maniacs the Muslim Brotherhood got rid of Mubarak, i was attacked by you and a few others on here when i stated this would be a disaster and the power vacuum created would lead to martial law and political chaos and the deaths of thousands… oh but this was the “arab spring” , the “revolution” , “pray for those in Tahir square”… meanwhile what has happended, ill give you an example, In April a court in egypt sentenced 500 people to death w/o trial in one sitting… any protests? no… of course not. there was mass murder Liverpool style at a football game, anyone protest against that… not on your life…
Egypt is now fucking chaos - does anyone care ? no… thousands of people are dead… kev do you really think a boring war in Gaza and a plane going down are going to change things, nice to protest against yes as you have Israel and Russia but in the big picture i think not

In Iraq , a group called ISIS are pillaging their way thru the country, torturing, killing, raping men, women and children and are expanding into Syria, its all going quite well for them, itll go even better if the US/UK decides to try to stop them, thousands willl tale to the streets with " stop the US imprialiasm in the middle east" and will in effect by supporting ISIS… i really fucking hate the world sometimes…

In Darfur and South Sudan there is wore, in Kurdistan Erdogan is fucking at something evil, but no one cares kev… it is horrific,

people will meekly protest against Putin BUT if the US got involved he will be the victim…

bottom line, there will be no war - the world is a fucked up place[/QUOTE]
Basically the point you’re making is that if you’re interested enough to protest about one international conflict, you have to protest about them all. That’s a rather ridiculous viewpoint and just the kind of whataboutery and muddying of the issues that the Israeli side loves to engage in. Supporters of Israel can start complaining about their barbaric actions getting high levels of international coverage (coverage which is largely biased in their favour) when they stop getting high levels of international funding to carry them out.

You know well the reasons why the Israel-Palestine conflict gets such coverage and such interest on the international stage.
i) Because one of the main protagonists is seen as part of “the West”, and a major ally of he US.
ii) Because it has been going on for 70 years at this point.
ii) Because the conflict in its historical context is a largely black and white situation where one side has been done a massive historical injustice whereas the other hasn’t (in this conflict), and one side has vast access to huge amounts of money and cutting edge technology whereas the other one, well, doesn’t…
iv) Because the other side has effectively used the even more massive historical injustice done against it during World War II as a reason to inflict one of their own.
v) Because it, more than anything, is the kernel of the Muslim world’s grievances against the West, and a legitimate one.

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The US gives more financial “aid” to Israel than South America and Africa combined every year.

Now anyone who argues with that being wrong is a total fucking scumbag who supports murder.

They don’t support rebels in Sudan or most other conflicts. If Israel didn’t have Yankee money they’d be very quite boys and have a country proportionate to their population and development.

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not been smart, but how is that hard to believe. If you compare the world now to previous times it is all more peaceful. I think it is down to there being more independent countries in the world. One hundred years ago there was 57 counties in the world now there is almost 200.

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yes , and the public will only object if the west are doing the killing, anything else is a revolution… the hypocrisy as @caoimhaoin would say…

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[QUOTE=“The Scouse Cafu, post: 986036, member: 2660”]Basically the point you’re making is that if you’re interested enough to protest about one international conflict, you have to protest about them all. That’s a rather ridiculous viewpoint and just the kind of whataboutery and muddying of the issues that the Israeli side loves to engage in. Supporters of Israel can start complaining about their barbaric actions getting high levels of international coverage (coverage which is largely biased in their favour) when they stop getting high levels of international funding to carry them out.

You know well the reasons why the Israel-Palestine conflict gets such coverage and such interest on the international stage.
i) Because one of the main protagonists is seen as part of “the West”, and a major ally of he US.
ii) Because it has been going on for 70 years at this point.
ii) Because the conflict in its historical context is a largely black and white situation where one side has been done a massive historical injustice whereas the other hasn’t (in this conflict), and one side has vast access to huge amounts of money and cutting edge technology whereas the other one, well, doesn’t…
iv) Because the other side has effectively used the even more massive historical injustice done against it during World War II as a reason to inflict one of their own.
v) Because it, more than anything, is the kernel of the Muslim world’s grievances against the West, and a legitimate one.[/QUOTE]

that’s not what i am saying at all sid
where did i ever say i agreed with the actions over the last few days in Gaza? i have said it is a horrible situation, i respect Israel’s need to defend itself but despise it’s actions in doing so
this thread is about whether there will be a WW3 as a result of a plane being taken down in russia or a conflict in the middle east that both parties have no interest in ending and will never end from what i can see, my point is that if people dont give 2 fucks about the events that i have mentioned in my post from egypt to iraq to darfur i very much doubt a plane crashing or a a scrap over a 24km strip of land by the med is really going to start a war.
your points i-iii are very accurate tho, in particular point i

20

[QUOTE=“mickee321, post: 986019, member: 367”]@caoimhaoin , ok lets think
a few people killed in the middle east, a plane being shot down over Russia - whoa Hitler invades Poland as @Tassotti would say, do you really think the world gives a fuck when you see the events below occurred and there were no protests on the streets, no one complaining on here

  • In Syria, hundreds of thousands of people have died in the last 3 years, the guy doing it even used chemical fucking weapons on his own people and no one cares…where are the protests? in august 2011 US/UK etc put together a plan to demilitarize Assad of WMD that he has taken the piss out of, any attempts of intervention on the West’s behalf would have been met with “stop the war” protests, however Assad just goes on raping, torturing, gasing and murdering at will, the fellas he is fighting arent much better… does anyone care? anyone got the balls to send a fucking aid flotilla to the Syrian coast? you’re damn right they wont… double standards wouldnt you think?

in Egypt in 2011 there was a so called “revolution” where a bunch of murdering maniacs the Muslim Brotherhood got rid of Mubarak, i was attacked by you and a few others on here when i stated this would be a disaster and the power vacuum created would lead to martial law and political chaos and the deaths of thousands… oh but this was the “arab spring” , the “revolution” , “pray for those in Tahir square”… meanwhile what has happended, ill give you an example, In April a court in egypt sentenced 500 people to death w/o trial in one sitting… any protests? no… of course not. there was mass murder Liverpool style at a football game, anyone protest against that… not on your life…
Egypt is now fucking chaos - does anyone care ? no… thousands of people are dead… kev do you really think a boring war in Gaza and a plane going down are going to change things, nice to protest against yes as you have Israel and Russia but in the big picture i think not

In Iraq , a group called ISIS are pillaging their way thru the country, torturing, killing, raping men, women and children and are expanding into Syria, its all going quite well for them, itll go even better if the US/UK decides to try to stop them, thousands willl tale to the streets with " stop the US imprialiasm in the middle east" and will in effect by supporting ISIS… i really fucking hate the world sometimes…

In Darfur and South Sudan there is wore, in Kurdistan Erdogan is fucking at something evil, but no one cares kev… it is horrific,

people will meekly protest against Putin BUT if the US got involved he will be the victim…

bottom line, there will be no war - the world is a fucked up place[/QUOTE]

I agree with mickee…the world truly is fucked when I agree with him anyway…but the sad reality is that israel, Ukraine are in the media when the utter torture for those in Syria is ignored