Warahiko
Cool.
Why wasnât the aviva developed to allow gaa games?
There are multiple reasons why the stadium situation in Dublin developed.
But essentially the GGA were bribed to stay away by Bertie Ahern.
Sadly, we have only one stadium in Dublin of recognised international quality, the Aviva Stadium.
I do not deny for a second that there has been widespread failure in delivering a linked up stadium policy. That goes from the State, the IRFU, the FAI and the GGA. The IRFU have sufficient stadiums, but have wasted money on Thomond Park when it should be a multi arena/funded stadium. Both the IRFU and FAI have failed to publically lobby for multi sport arenas.
The GGAâs failures are more serious. Whatever about the localised vanity projects they have allowed, the bigoted policy they have pursued is a stain on the organisation. Both the media and State have failed to face up to the GGA. It is a collective failure, but the moral failure lies with the GGA.
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Oooft
How do you mean bribed to stay away? Why wouldnât the irfu want to develop a pitch that could be used to the gaa, especially after croker was opened to allow them play in their biggest earning games.
There wasnât room for a gga pitch in the aviva
Deary me, go do some reading on this.
Bertie Ahern paid off the GGA before a crucial vote on Rule 42 in 2001.
The entire mess on stadium policy is detailed here.
By the time the Newlands Cross, Eircom Park and Stadium Ireland fiascos had been closed, Lansdowne Road was the only logical choice. The GGA had their stadium and didnât need one.
With the Aviva built, the IRFU and FAI were never going to use Croke Park. Thatâs just the reality when you have financing in place including naming rights and ownership structures the way they were.
Listen in an ideal world, we would have two stadiums in Dublin. One 50k and one 80k. Both could host all sports. But serious errors in government policy, driven by the ego of the leader of State, put paid to that (along with Rule 42). Once constructed, the GGA had no use for another stadium while they owned their own one and had it financed to the degree they did by the State. Same goes for the FAI and IRFU. In reality what should have happened is that the State should have said no public money would go into the construction of these projects unless they were owned by the State/Council. It didnât.
We should have learned lessons from that, but we didnât. The IRFU and Munster built Thomond Park. Rather than start a discussion on the GGA joining in the media and removing Rule 42, they pressed on. Same goes for PUC, rather than have a discussion on constructed a high quality multi use stadium for Cork, the State just handed money over to the GGA. The level of commentary on this issue has been disgraceful and we still today have dinosaurs like yourself and Fagan trying to deflect each and everyway on this. I admit the IRFU should have been doing more to press this issue, along with the FAI, you canât admit that the GGAâs policy has been both backward in terms of allowing too many local vanity projects and the historic policy of bigotry in the organisation.
Correct and by the time the Aviva came around, the GGA had absolutely zero incentive to join in the project as they had their stadium built, fully financed and owned by them. They were not going to pay rent to another organisation for a stadium. Thatâs without considering the very fact that Rule 42 existed.
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Did you see the gga went to the government in private and told the government to keep out of the Miller issue
How much funding did aviva get compared to how much the gaa got for croke park?
So youve outlined where the irfu and fai, especially, fumbled around with failed projects. Then wanted their own stadium anyway due to sponsorship and naming rights. And the gaa were supposed to wait around hoping this would be resolved. Would have been madness. The gaa has a huge supporter base to cater for every year, couldnât be relying on a smaller but well run organisation and a complete scum run fuck up to get their house in order.
Yup. They donât like Rule 42 being discussed in public. It is a source of embarrassment for the money men to still have this rule in place. The big wigs in CP desperately wanted that rule gone years ago as it was logical. Imagine in 2004 they had just dumped the rule. I guarantee the Aviva Stadium would never have been built. The GGA would have been picking up rent for a generation. Instead the backwoodsmen across the country wouldnât allow it. It is NOT a good look for an organisation which makes such a big deal out of the Royal family visiting their facilities to have anti English rules in place still.
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âŹ191m. âŹ110m of public money went into CP.
The reason why all of the Associations âfumbledâ around, was because there was no coherant policy from the State on stadiums, as I have mentioned.
I have no issue with the GGA wanting to build a stadium themselves and good luck to them for starting to finance and build it themselves. But public money did eventually go into it, when the GGA had bigoted rules in place.
The failure around the building of stadiums in Dublin is a collective one, as I have stated. But the GGA has the burden of a moral failure as well to shoulder, thatâs just the reality of it.
Until we get dinosaurs like yourself to see how backwards it is to build half assed stadiums like Thomond Park and PUC, and worse, shitheaps like MacHale Park and the Gaelic Ground, we wonât have high quality stadiums in this country. In my opinion no public money over a couple of million euros should go to building stadiums in this country without a multi use dynamic. Mistakes were made in the past and sadly they continue being made.
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So for âŹ140milion in public money a 82000 capacity stadium in Dublin and 45000 capacity stadium in Cork was delivered by the GAA that can be used for other sports when required. For âŹ191million the IRFU and FAI built a 50000 capacity stadium in Dublin that can never be used for the playing of Gaelic games. Seems clear to me where public money should be directed to if the taxpayer is to get any value.
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I agree completely with you there. Money should be spent on local sporting facilities let the associations run their own vanity projects. The gaaâs only burden is to its own clubs and members though, if oirland were playing albania in front of five thousand people some august or September they couldnât be given preference over gaa finals in a stadium.
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Not sports that require a fully seated stadium
Do you understand how construction projects work? Do you understand inflation?
Firstly, CP was built in stages, some a decade before the Aviva. There was considerable inflation in that time. Additionally, the construction over a railway line in the most expensive postcode of the country is a tad bit more complicated and costly than the GGAâs location.
Secondly, there was not need for Gaelic Games to use the stadium. They had their stadium, fully built and owned by them. They werenât going to use the Aviva, thatâs the end of it.
Thirdly, capacity doesnât necessarily link to quality. One full end of Jurassic Park/Theater of Hate is an uncovered concrete terrace, which increases capacity but cannot earn the economic value that a seat can. Most international observers look at it and go, âwhen is it going to be finished?â. The only stadium of international quality in Dublin is the Aviva Stadium.
Lastly, the GGA never envisaged rugby football or association football using it. They had expressed rules against them during construction. The State rubber stamped those rules by giving them public money. Same goes for PUC (outside of the 2023 one off), as we have seen with this Liam Miller testimonial fiasco where the GGA had to be publically embarrassed.
Rugby was awful in Croke Park. GAA pitch far too big to play rugby or indeed soccer on.
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Agreed
It was you that provided the figures, now you seem to be disputing them because the GAA had the temerity to complete their projects in a sensible, cost effective manner which ensured they were less of a drain on the public purse and could reinvest more money in local facilities for sportspeople across the island.
As well as meeting the needs of gaelic games fans, Croke Park can hold international football and rugby games if and when required. The Aviva was a huge drain on the public purse and continues to be a huge drain on the FAI with much of the expense for reasons of vanity. And having sat beside international viewers when watching games at the Aviva the stand behind one goal which accommodates approximately 2000 fans is always a source of laughter for them and the question is always raised as to why it looks so rubbish.