FAO sledgehammer,
maccabi haifa beat Glentoran 6-0 in the first leg of the champions league first round tonite here in isral.
Glentoran did ok for the first two or three minutes but after that the humidity ( ~75%) and heat was probably a factor in them falling asunder. it prob should have been nine or ten.
best of luck against salzburg tonite and nest week
[quote=âSledgehammerâ]Welcome aboard Mick.
Any chance you can answer the simple question of whether or not UEFA currently allow competitive European games to be played in Haifa?
Cheers.[/QUOTE]
FAO sledgehammer,
maccabi haifa beat Glentoran 6-0 in the first leg of the champions league first round tonite here in isral.
Glentoran did ok for the first two or three minutes but after that the humidity ( ~75%) and heat was probably a factor in them falling asunder. it prob should have been nine or ten.
best of luck against salzburg tonite and nest week
[quote=âmickee321â]FAO sledgehammer,
maccabi haifa beat Glentoran 6-0 in the first leg of the champions league first round tonite here in isral.
Glentoran did ok for the first two or three minutes but after that the humidity ( ~75%) and heat was probably a factor in them falling asunder. it prob should have been nine or ten.
best of luck against salzburg tonite and nest week[/QUOTE]
sledge is in a slammer in vienna
:rolleyes:
met a few of these glentoran cunts in tel aviv at the weekend.
they were draped in union jacks colored black, red and green as opposed to the blue, white and red that is the color of their rivals linfield.
they were all proddys tho 100% , many sporting dirty hun like tattoos
one for the celtic chaps on hereâŚ
the glens were telling me that jock stein some former celtic manager had a pretty questionable rep and some of his activities were slightly christian brother like,
i didnt know if they were raising this just to try to insult a " southerner" as i was referred to or if there is any truth in these allegationsâŚ
NCC,
have we unearthed a link between GGA, christain brothers and glasgow celtic??
met a few of these glentoran cunts in tel aviv at the weekend.
they were draped in union jacks colored black, red and green as opposed to the blue, white and red that is the color of their rivals linfield.
they were all proddys tho 100% , many sporting dirty hun like tattoos
one for the celtic chaps on hereâŚ
the glens were telling me that jock stein some former celtic manager had a pretty questionable rep and some of his activities were slightly christian brother like,
i didnt know if they were raising this just to try to insult a " southerner" as i was referred to or if there is any truth in these allegationsâŚ
NCC,
have we unearthed a link between GGA, christain brothers and glasgow celtic??[/QUOTE]
no truth in that rumour - you could link celtic fans with battering the 83 year old woman though as their hoolies hang together
thanks
Israeli soldiers killed unarmed civilians carrying white flags in Gaza, says report
Human Rights Watch says Israel has failed to properly investigate âwhite flagâ killings during Gaza offensive
Israeli soldiers shot dead 11 unarmed Palestinian civilians carrying white flags during Israelâs offensive in Gaza earlier this year, according to a report from Human Rights Watch, which said Israel had failed to investigate the killings adequately.
The deaths including those of five women and four children took place in seven separate incidents across Gaza in areas controlled by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF), where there was no fighting and no Palestinian fighters were nearby.
Human Rights Watch, a New-York-based organisation, which published White Flag Deaths: Killings of Palestinian Civilians during Operation Cast Leadsaid it informed the Israeli military of the cases in February. But the cases were not examined in an IDF internal investigation, which concluded that they âoperated in accordance with international law.â The group says at least three witnesses confirmed the details in each of the seven shootings.
Included among the cases is one first reported in detail by the Observer in Khuzaâa, close to the fence surrounding Gaza. Rawiya al-Najjar, 47, was shot dead, and her relative Jasmin al-Najjar, 23, was wounded while the two women were attempting to escape an attack on the village that included the use of white phosphorus and the bulldozing of houses.
Three other incidents occurred around the northern Gaza village of al-Atatra, which had previously seen fighting between Israeli soldiers and Hamas fighters. By the time of the shootings, however, the fighting had stopped, and in each case the civilians were visible, unarmed, and displaying white flags, the report says.
In one case, the civilians were walking in a group on a street. In another, they were driving slowly on tractors and in cars, trying to leave the area with the wounded, according to the report.
âOn the way we saw tanks and soldiers,â said Omar Abu Halima, 18. âWhen we saw them [the Israeli soldiers] they told us to stop. After we stopped they fired at us. They killed my cousin Mattar. My cousin Muhammad was wounded and later died.â
In another case also in al-Atatra two women holding white flags stepped out of a house that the IDF was demolishing to tell the soldiers that civilians were inside. âWe opened the door and a sniper fired at us from a house,â said Zakiya al-Qanu, 55. âIbtisam was hit and I turned to go back inside and another bullet grazed my back. Ibtisam died in the doorway.â
The Israeli military said that in some cases Hamas militants had used civilians with white flags for cover. It said yesterday the reports were based on âunreliable witnessesâ whose testimony was âunprovenâ.
Human Rights Watch said it could find no evidence of misuse of white flags or the use of civilians as human shields in the cases detailed. âThese casualties comprise a fraction of the Palestinian civilians wounded and killed,â the report says.
âBut they stand out because, in each case, the victims were standing, walking or in slowly moving vehicles with other unarmed civilians, and were trying to convey their non-combatant status by waving a white flag.â
Along with the use of white phosphorus on civilian areas, the shooting of unarmed civilians has become the most controversial issue of Januaryâs war. The report follows the publication last month of anonymous testimonies by more than two dozen soldiers who fought in Gaza, compiled by Breaking the Silence, an organisation of former Israeli servicemen, which accused the IDF of allowing an atmosphere of permissive violence against civilians.
The allegations of white flag deaths, collected by human rights groups and the media, have yet to be adequately responded to. Under the Geneva conventions, combatants are obliged to distinguish between soldiers and civilians (as well as fighters who are hors de combat) and also have a legal obligation to protect civilians. They are also required to investigate any alleged war crimes committed by their own troops.
Last month, the Israeli government released its own report defending its use of force in Gaza.
It said Israel was investigating five alleged cases in which soldiers killed civilians carrying white flags, incidents that it said resulted in 10 deaths. Two of the cases the incident in Khuzaâa and one in eastern Jabaliya are among them.
Quick anecdote, a mate of mine works in Dubai. Anyway a friend of his is a teacher in a primary school out there. They were doing geography and maps and stuff and she naively put a map of the middle east and all the countryâs names filled in etc. Next day she nearly got the sack after a load of the kidâs parents complained to her boss about maps with the state of Israel on it. 
The official map in Dubai just says Palestine for that general area.
Israeli officials warn against support for UN report
By Ben Lynfield in Jerusalem
Sunday, 11 October 2009
A jittery Israeli government reacted furiously yesterday after a top British diplomat voiced support for aspects of a UN report that could lead to prosecution of Israeli army officers for alleged war crimes.
The UK ambassador to the UN, John Sawers, told Israel Army radio that the report on last winters Gaza war contains some very serious details which need to be investigated by both the Palestinian authorities and the Israeli authorities.
He added that serious information in the document gives rise to the suspicion that violations of the laws of war were committed.
The remarks, three days before the report is expected to be raised in the security council at Libyas behest, highlighted a British position that is rhetorically distinct from that of Washington, which has been strongly backing an Israeli campaign to scuttle the report on the grounds it is biased.
Mr. Sawers took issue with the prevalent Israeli idea that the commission headed by South African judge Richard Goldstone had reached its conclusions in advance of its research. This investigation was led by a serious figure, Richard Goldstone, a South African Jew with long experience in justice. Its not as if he was in any way biased, he said.
Israeli officials warned in response that any British support for the report would boomerang. If a precedent is set of Israelis being prosecuted for acts during the Gaza war, Britons could also be placed in the dock for actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, they said. London, which is also in the midst of a war against terror, could find itself in handcuffs if it supports the document, they said.
The report issued last month said that both Israel and Hamas were guilty of war crimes during the conflict in which nearly 1400 Palestinians and thirteen Israelis died. It said the Israeli military had proven unable to investigate itself and recommended the war crimes allegations be referred to the International Criminal Court if good faith investigations were not underway within six months.
Israels concerns about a renewal of diplomatic momentum for the report have intensified in recents days after the Palestinian Authority began working to revive debate over it at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva. The Palestinian moves aim to reverse a highly unpopular decision by PA President Mahmoud Abbas ten days ago under US and Israeli pressure to postpone a discussion for six months.
[quote=âWatch The Breakâ]Israeli officials warn against support for UN report
By Ben Lynfield in Jerusalem
Sunday, 11 October 2009
A jittery Israeli government reacted furiously yesterday after a top British diplomat voiced support for aspects of a UN report that could lead to prosecution of Israeli army officers for alleged war crimes.
The UK ambassador to the UN, John Sawers, told Israel Army radio that the report on last winters Gaza war contains some very serious details which need to be investigated by both the Palestinian authorities and the Israeli authorities.
He added that serious information in the document gives rise to the suspicion that violations of the laws of war were committed.
The remarks, three days before the report is expected to be raised in the security council at Libyas behest, highlighted a British position that is rhetorically distinct from that of Washington, which has been strongly backing an Israeli campaign to scuttle the report on the grounds it is biased.
Mr. Sawers took issue with the prevalent Israeli idea that the commission headed by South African judge Richard Goldstone had reached its conclusions in advance of its research. This investigation was led by a serious figure, Richard Goldstone, a South African Jew with long experience in justice. Its not as if he was in any way biased, he said.
Israeli officials warned in response that any British support for the report would boomerang. If a precedent is set of Israelis being prosecuted for acts during the Gaza war, Britons could also be placed in the dock for actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, they said. London, which is also in the midst of a war against terror, could find itself in handcuffs if it supports the document, they said.
The report issued last month said that both Israel and Hamas were guilty of war crimes during the conflict in which nearly 1400 Palestinians and thirteen Israelis died. It said the Israeli military had proven unable to investigate itself and recommended the war crimes allegations be referred to the International Criminal Court if good faith investigations were not underway within six months.
Israels concerns about a renewal of diplomatic momentum for the report have intensified in recents days after the Palestinian Authority began working to revive debate over it at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva. The Palestinian moves aim to reverse a highly unpopular decision by PA President Mahmoud Abbas ten days ago under US and Israeli pressure to postpone a discussion for six months.[/quote]
âwar crimesâ
what a bullshit term
who does this british fool think he is accusing isral of war crimes when his own army are cleaning up in afghanisan?
i wonder what would this fool say if questioned about dresden in 1945,
isral is acting in self defense, this moron whose governemnet are fighting a war thousands of miles away for no reason apart from to satisfy their own imperialistic cravings are not in any position to accuse anyone of war crimes.
like all UN investigations this report will be poured over by a few self righteous do gooders and will then be fucked politely in the binâŚ
does anyone in isral care what the UN say, think or do ? No
in order to justify murdering iraqis and threatening to attack iran that fool obama has no choice but to say he is protecting " his friend" isral from aggression.
isral has the US administration by the balls, isral can do whatever it wants, people like this british fool will complain, a few saddos will march in the streets and say they wont buy israeli oranges in dunnes but at the end of the day the most powerful country in the world is the USA and as long as BiBi Netannahyu has that dope Obama eating out of the palm of his hand isral will do what they want , when they wantâŚ
so there
[quote=âmickee321â]âwar crimesâ
what a bullshit term
who does this british fool think he is accusing isral of war crimes when his own army are cleaning up in afghanisan?
i wonder what would this fool say if questioned about dresden in 1945,
isral is acting in self defense, this moron whose governemnet are fighting a war thousands of miles away for no reason apart from to satisfy their own imperialistic cravings are not in any position to accuse anyone of war crimes.
like all UN investigations this report will be poured over by a few self righteous do gooders and will then be fucked politely in the binâŚ
does anyone in isral care what the UN say, think or do ? No
in order to justify murdering iraqis and threatening to attack iran that fool obama has no choice but to say he is protecting " his friend" isral from aggression.
isral has the US administration by the balls, isral can do whatever it wants, people like this british fool will complain, a few saddos will march in the streets and say they wont buy israeli oranges in dunnes but at the end of the day the most powerful country in the world is the USA and as long as BiBi Netannahyu has that dope Obama eating out of the palm of his hand isral will do what they want , when they wantâŚ
so there[/quote]
Exactly what I hoped youâd say
Exactly what I hoped youâd say[/quote]
thank you
i think i put it quite well as well
Jaysus Mick whether they get anywhere is neither here nor there, you make it sound like theyve a cheek to ask whether or not using kids as a human shield is acceptable behaviour though? I donât see how bombing the UN HQ in Gaza or the school next door does anything to improve the self defence argument the Israelis make either?
The league of nations failed because the US didnt sign up, all of these bullshitty world courts etc will also mean nothing unless the US are on board too.
[quote=âSpecial Olympiakosâ]Jaysus Mick whether they get anywhere is neither here nor there, you make it sound like theyve a cheek to ask whether or not using kids as a human shield is acceptable behaviour though? I donât see how bombing the UN HQ in Gaza or the school next door does anything to improve the self defence argument the Israelis make either?
The league of nations failed because the US didnt sign up, all of these bullshitty world courts etc will also mean nothing unless the US are on board too.[/quote]
DNFTT
[quote=âSpecial Olympiakosâ]
The league of nations failed because the US didnt sign up, all of these bullshitty world courts etc will also mean nothing unless the US are on board too.[/quote]
You werenât complaining when I got you this close to Chachi
Another good for a look at the extremism that dominates the Israeli political mainstream. Not so much for the article, but the comments that follow - http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/rosner/entry/how_many_palestinians_in_the
A few samples:
(in reference to dricing the palestines out of the west bank and gaza - aka ethnic cleansing)
#13 Daran. I have no problem saying ââtransferââ - thatâs Rosnerâs problem. You want to calll it ââforced expulsionââ - thatâs fine with me too. Call it what you will, thatâs the only real option we have. By the way, all the comments on the exaggerated population statistics are probably correct. The statistics are manipulated for political reasons.
It is high time we refer to the Truth in our published articles. All the arabs are living in Israel. There is no Palestinian Territory - nor is there any proof of the infamous âpalestinian peopleâ. The Media has gone on long enough using these fictitious terms to promote their warped viewpoint that Israel does not include the 1948 land it was granted which is the original Biblical Israel borders. Time we got the message out. Israel includes Gaza and the West Bank and the Golan. The Sinai peninsula was never a part of Israel - but it was nice owning for the short time that we did. Someday - we will again
special olympiakos pireus
are u a basketball fan>
i quite fancy teh chances of olympiacos in the euroleague that is starting tomorrow nite
maccabi electra tel aviv are playing the slovene champions in the first round tomorro nite
2 years ago i was at the euro league group stage game in tel aviv between olypiacos and maccabi in the nokia arena, it was quite an occasion
i love the euroleague on thursday nites
olympiacos, partizan beograd, real madrid and tau vitoria i think will be in with a shout of the final 4 this yearâŚ
maccabi who have one this 5 times and were beaten in teh 2008 final by cska moskva are not strong enough this year
[quote=âSpecial Olympiakosâ]Jaysus Mick whether they get anywhere is neither here nor there, you make it sound like theyve a cheek to ask whether or not using kids as a human shield is acceptable behaviour though? I donât see how bombing the UN HQ in Gaza or the school next door does anything to improve the self defence argument the Israelis make either?
The league of nations failed because the US didnt sign up, all of these bullshitty world courts etc will also mean nothing unless the US are on board too.[/quote]
Posts: 124
vCash: 500
special olympiakos pireus
are u a basketball fan>
i quite fancy teh chances of olympiacos in the euroleague that is starting tomorrow nite
maccabi electra tel aviv are playing the slovene champions in the first round tomorro nite
2 years ago i was at the euro league group stage game in tel aviv between olypiacos and maccabi in the nokia arena, it was quite an occasion
i love the euroleague on thursday nites
olympiacos, partizan beograd, real madrid, cska and tau vitoria i think will be in with a shout of the final 4 this yearâŚ
maccabi who have one this 5 times and were beaten in the 2008 final by cska moskva are not strong enough this year
Family who lost 29 members in Gaza war: We envy the dead
By Amira Hass
Richard Goldstone visited the Gaza City neighborhood of Zaytoun in late June to tour the compound of the extended Samouni family, the subject of coverage here in recent weeks ("âI fed him like a baby bird,â" September 17; âDeath in the Samouni compound,â September 25). Twenty-nine members of the family, all of them civilians, were killed in the Israel Defense Forceâs winter assault - 21 during the shelling of a house where IDF soldiers had gathered some 100 members of the family a day earlier.
Salah Samouni and the owner of the house that was shelled - Wael Samouni - took Goldstone around the farming neighborhood, showing him its devastated homes and uprooted orchards. In a telephone conversation this week, Salah described how he had shown Goldstone a picture of his father, Talal, among the 21 killed in the house. He told the Jewish South African judge and head of the United Nations inquiry team into Operation Cast Lead, that his father âhad been employed by Jewsâ for nearly 40 years and that whenever he was sick, âthe employer would call, ask after his health, and forbid him to come to work before he had recovered.â
The Samounis were always confident that, in the event of any military invasions into Gaza, they could always manage to get along with the Israeli army. Until 2005, before Israelâs disengagement from the Strip, the Jewish settlement of Netzarim was located right next door, and several family members worked there from time to time. When the joint Israeli-Palestinian patrols were active, Israeli soldiers and Palestinian security officials sometimes asked the Samounis to âlendâ them a tractor to flatten a patch of land or repair the Salah al-Din Road (for example, when a diplomatic convoy needed to pass through). While Samouni family members worked on their tractors, gathering sand, the soldiers would watch them.
âWhen the soldiers wanted us to leave, they would fire above our heads. Thatâs what experience taught me,â recalls Salah Samouni, who lost a 2-year-old daughter in the IDF attack, along with uncles and both of his parents. The older men of the family, among them his father and two uncles who were killed by IDF soldiers on January 4 and 5, worked in Israel until the 1990s in different localities, including Bat Yam, Moshav Asseret (near Gedera) and the âGlicksman Plant.â They all believed that the Hebrew they had learned would assist and if necessary save them during encounters with soldiers.
As was reported here last month - on January 4, under orders from the army, Salah Samouni and the rest of the family left their home, which had been turned into a military position, and moved to the other, the home of Wael, located on the southern side of the street. The fact that it was the soldiers who had relocated them, had seen the faces of the children and the older women, and the fact that the soldiers were positioned in locations surrounding the house just tens of meters away, instilled in the family a certain amount of confidence - despite the IDF fire from the air, from the sea and from the land, despite the hunger and the thirst.
On the morning of Monday, January 5, Salah Samouni walked out of the house and shouted in the direction of another house in the compound that he thought other family members were still in. He wanted them to join him, to be in a safer place, closer to the soldiers. Nothing prepared him for the three shells and the rockets the IDF fired a short time later.
âMy daughter Azza, my only daughter, two and a half years old, was injured in the first hit on the house,â Salah told Haaretz. âShe managed to say, âDaddy, it hurts.â And then, in the second hit, she died. And Iâm praying. Everything is dust and I canât see anything. I thought I was dead. I found myself getting up, all bloody, and I found my mother sitting by the hall with her head tilted downward. I moved her face a little, and I found that the right half of her face was gone. I looked at my father, whose eye was gone. He was still breathing a little, and then he stopped.â
When they exited the house - injured, confused, dazed, fearing the fourth shell or rocket would soon land - determined to get themselves to Gaza despite the soldiersâ shouts from nearby positions to go back, they believed only corpses remained in the house. They did not know that under the dust and rubble in one large room, nine family members remained alive: the elderly matriarch and five of her grandchildren and great-grandchildren - the youngest of whom was three years old, the eldest 16 - along with another kinsman and his son. They had passed out, some of them beneath corpses.
When they regained consciousness, 16-year-old Ahmad Ibrahim and his 10-year-old brother Yakub saw the corpses of their mother, four of their brothers and their nephew. Mahmoud Tallal, 16, had lost his toes; bleeding, he saw that his parents - Tallal and Rahma - had been killed. Three-year-old Omar, Salahâs son, was buried unconscious under 24-year-old Saffaâs dead body, explaining why they hadnât found him during the terrible moment of panic as they left the house. Ahmad Nafez, 15, recalled how when little Omar woke up and pulled himself out from under the corpse, he spotted his grandfather Tallal and started shaking him, crying: âGrandpa, Grandpa, wake up.â
The previous day Amal, a nine-year-old girl, had witnessed soldiers bursting into her home and killing her father, Atiyeh. She had taken shelter in her Uncle Tallalâs home and together with other family members was moved to Waelâs house. She did not know that her brother Ahmad was bleeding to death in his motherâs arms, in another house in the neighborhood.
The children found some scraps of food in the kitchen and ate. Later, Ahmad Nafez told his relatives how Ahmad Ibrahim had gone from corpse to corpse - his mother, his four brothers and his nephew among them - shaking them, hitting them, telling them to get up. Perhaps from the blows, Amal regained consciousness, her head bloody and her eyes rolling in their sockets. She kept crying out âwater, water,â said she wanted her mother and father, and beat her head on the floor, her eyes rolling the whole time.
It is too dangerous to remove the shrapnel embedded in her head - that is even what the doctors at a Tel Aviv hospital say. Now everything hurts her and will continue to hurt her: when itâs cold, when itâs hot, when sheâs in the sun. She will not be able to concentrate on her studies.
No one can reconstruct how the hours passed for them in Waelâs bombarded house; some remained in a state of exhaustion and apathy. The first to recover was actually Shiffa, the 71-year-old grandmother. On the morning of Tuesday, January 6, she realized that no one was coming to rescue them anytime soon. Not the soldiers positioned just meters away, not the Red Cross nor the Red Crescent nor other relatives. Perhaps they didnât even know they were alive, she concluded. Her walker had been bent and buried in the house, but she managed to leave with two of her grandchildren - Mahmoud (his legs bleeding) and little Omar.
They hobbled out and started walking - along the silent street, among the vacated houses, realizing some were occupied by soldiers. âThe Jews saw us from above and shouted to us to go into the house,â related Shiffa. That was when they were walking down the street and passed by her sisterâs home. They went inside, but didnât find a living soul. The soldiers - firing into the air - came in after them. âWe begged them to let us go home. âWhere is your home?ââ they asked. She told them âover thereâ and pointed east, toward the home of one of her sons, Arafat, located closer to Salah al-Din Road. The soldiers let them continue on. âWe saw people coming out of Arafatâs house and Hijjehâs house. Everyone was a bit injured and the soldiers were shooting overhead.â
At Hijjehâs house she found everyone crying, each with his own story of those dead or wounded. âI told them what had happened to us, how everyone had fallen on everyone else, in heaps, the dead and the wounded.â She remained there with the rest of the injured for another night. Omar remembers this house fondly: He was given chocolate there.
Only on Wednesday, January 7, did the IDF allow Red Cross and Red Crescent crews to enter the neighborhood. They attest that theyâd been asking to enter since January 4, but the IDF would not let them - whether by shooting in the direction of the ambulances that tried to get closer or by refusing to approve coordination. The medical teams, which were allowed to go in on foot and had to leave the ambulances a kilometer or a kilometer and a half away, thought they were going to rescue the injured from Hijjehâs house. But then the grandmother told them about the wounded children who remained behind, among the dead, in Waelâs house. The medical team set out to rescue them, totally unprepared for the sight they found.
On January 18, after the IDF left the Gaza Strip, the rescue teams returned to the neighborhood. Waelâs house was found in ruins: IDF bulldozers had demolished it entirely - with the corpses inside.
In a general reply to questions from Haaretz regarding the behavior of the military forces in the Samouni familyâs neighborhood, the IDF Spokesman said that all of the claims have been examined. âUpon completion of the examination, the findings will be taken to the military advocate general, who will decide about the need to take additional steps,â the spokesman said.
Salah Samouni, during the telephone conversation, said: âI asked [Richard] Goldstone to find out just one thing: Why did the army do this to us? Why did they take us out of the house one at a time, and the officer who spoke Hebrew with my father verified that we were all civilians - [so] why did they then shell us, kill us? This is what we want to know.â
He feels that Goldstone, in his report, lent the victims a voice. He did not expound on his frustration upon learning that the debate on the report had been postponed, but sought a way to describe how he feels nine months after the fact. âWe feel [we are] in an exile, even though we are in our homeland, on our land. We sit and envy the dead. They are the ones who are at rest.â