I donât think heâs been a failure with Ireland in the last couple of years. Was it 5 in 10 in qualifying plus the goal in Paris? Thatâs a more than decent record.
Others are obviously going to have different opinions on various playersâ attributes. But my point on Keane was that it was completely irrational to have a go at him over this Birmingham thing. Any criticism has no basis whatsoever.
Look I think itâs been abundantly clear on here for a while now that you know precious little about soccer. Anyone who saw your Bale for England post formed that opinion many months ago. Congratulations on having such great friends though.
To address your last paragraph, where you actually addressed the argument, you donât see that you are dissing him for moving around a lot and now youâre dissing him for not moving. And you have extrapolated a lot from those moves and concluded heâs a troublemaker despite no evidence to support that statement and plenty of evidence to the contrary (such as being made captain of club and country etc). And now youâre choosing to take quotes from Peter Grant out of context (quotes where he said theyâd love to sign him) and drawn more conclusions about his character from those quotes. Again despite the Birmingham chairman and Keane himself fairly ridiculing your opinion.
[quote=âPikeman, post: 541303â]
Keane was a failure at Inter, a failure at Liverpool, a failure at Leeds and, in the last couple of years, a failure at Spurs and Ireland. For a man of his talent, thatâs disappointing.
On the other hand, he has the goalscoring record, a good spell at Coventry and Wolves and at the beginning of Spurs.
I was a big fan of him until I started going to all the home Ireland matches 5 years ago. Watching him on the pitch, I think the man is an utter farce. Whingeing when itâs easier to chase the ball, pretending to go for headers (jumping early or late as he is afraid of his shite), pulling out of challenges. Maybe because he is hyped up so much that I am harder on him than others but I donât see the whinging and the cowardly aspect to any other playerâs game.
A great goalscorer no doubt but an utterly infuriating player to watch. His goals record should not mean heâs not subject to criticism though.[/quote]
You seem to be focusing more on his negative aspects (takes up most of the post) as opposed to his goalscoring record for Ireland (takes up one line). I would be the opposite whereby I would highlight his goalscoring record for Ireland first and foremost, and then look at the negative aspects to his game of which there are many. While you say that his goals doesnât make him not subject to criticism, I would say that they do cut him some slack, particularly when he is still in the main delivering them for us.
I would also dispute a lot of the list of failures which you label him with. At Inter he was doing reasonably well until Lippi was sacked and replaced by Tardelli ironically who never gave him a chance. At Liverpool he was treated disgracefully to be honest, found himself playing upfront by himself and contributed a few goals. The Liverpool team he was part of lead the league during his time there. He played relatively well in matches when he wasnât scoring and I certainly wouldnât say he was a failure. I canât recall much of his time at Leeds but I certainly wouldnât have thought he was a failure there.
To say that he was a failure at Ireland in the last couple of years is completely ridiculous by the way.
He was very good at his first half season at Leeds when he was on loanâŚScored a good few goals, second season he struggled a bit to get in the team when OâLeary bought Fowler and Viduka who pretty much started every game when fit under OâLearyâŚWas far from ran out of the club but had to be sold by El Tel in cost cutting measures somewhat reluctantlyâŚ
Agree with most of that post Farmer and I donât think he is above criticism but he certainly gets judged far too harshly by a lot of peopleâŚWe will badly miss him when he hangs up his boots
Look Keane scored loads for Ireland and thats great. Doesnât make him a great player or anything. If you were to go by that logic David Healy must be fucking unreal. The reality is he isnât.
Iâve been to nearly all of Irelands home matches in the last two years and Keane is the biggest arse turning moanbag going.
Whether or not he was looking for more money is irrelevant. If he wanted to play he wouldâve bit the hand off em. Thats about his level at this stage sad and all as it is. I could be proved wrong but I dont think anyone better than Birmingham will be knocking on his door.
Heâs in it for the money and fair play to him I would be too. But to suggest anything otherwise is just nonsense.
His successes have come at Wolves, Coventry, Celtic and first time at Spurs. The first three were at those stages little better than Birmingham.
His Spurs success was the one part of his career at a decent level playing well.
His failures at Leeds, Liverpool and Spurs the second time around will always be a damning inditement of him. As will the fact that Redknapp having had him at his peak has no interest in him now.
I wouldnât count his time at Inter as a failure. More a bad career choice.
At least you admit you have a chip on your shoulder about Keane.
The argument was about Kevâs ridiculous claim that Keane moving clubs was indicative that he was a troublemaker and that he was bad for morale. Oh and something about the boy who cried wolf. It may not make much sense and I agree that it shouldnât be relvant but unfortunately thatâs the debate weâre having here.
Again we have this brilliant skill of holding two conflicting opinions at the same time and arguing for them both. If he was wrong to join Liverpool why was he wrong to lleave?
Anyone who believes he was wrong to leave Coventry to join Inter seriously needs their head examined. What possible reason could you give for staying at that backwater club instead of moving to one of the biggest clubs in Europe? I refuse to believe anyone genuinely believed that was a poor move at the time. With hindsight it didnât work out brilliantly but it cost him only 6 months and heâd have been a fool, and a particularly unambitious fool, to have turned down that opportunity.
While the same gulf in class didnât exist between Liverpool and Spurs itâs also a touch odd to criticise the guy for taking a chance on Champions League football. Does Berbatov get the same criticism? Or Carrick? Or is really just because you detest Keane so want to throw these examples at him.
For clarification, Iâm not suggesting he was a success at Liverpool or Inter. Iâm not even saying they were particularly brilliant choices with hindsight. I am saying that itâs blatantly ridiculous to judge the guyâs career on the basis of those moves which were reasonable in most cases (Liverpool and Spurs) and in the case of Inter⌠well Iâve said it before. Youâre doing yourself no favours by throwing that out there, as though heâd really have been better off sticking with Coventry.
Iâd agree on Aldridge being a better player. He was a superb player and his club record blows the likes of Keaneâs (or Stapletonâs or Quinnâs or anyone elseâs) out of the water.
I donât agree that the team has been built around Keane. Heâs partnered with Doyle. Heâs big enough, heâs not huge. Heâs playing there because heâs the other best striker we have. Thatâs not building the team around Keane now matter how much you want to present the story in order to suit your argument. He has benefitted from playing alongside strikers like Doyle and Quinn but they were hardly put there at the expense of others just to help Keane.
You seem to have an odd fixation with Alexander Frei. Heâs not the greatest striker in the world but weâre not the greatest country in the world and weâd have been blessed to have a player like him in our squad for the last 10 years. We seem to have an odd superiority complex about guys like that and yet our squad is littered with Championship players. Are we really that much better than Switzerland? (rhetorical: of course weâre not).
Take away Keaneâs friendlies (all of them, even though Frank played in his fair share). Take away his goals against Andorra. Youâre still left with 27 goals. Still over a third more than Stapleton. You can go further and take away the two goals he got against the Faroe Islands (in a 2-0 win!) and the goal he got against Malta (in a 3-2 win) and he still has more. But of course Stapleton played against the likes of Luxembourg and played in friendlies and had his own padding. You said early on that you werenât going to argue with Keaneâs goalscoring record. Funnily enough, thatâs what you ended up doing.
Youâre nicely glossing over his contribution at the World Cup itself which is a bit of a strange omission in assessing whether he has contributed to our success. But again, you concentrate on presenting parts of the picture and Iâll fill in the blanks. Do you also discount his goals in qualifying competitions for tournaments where we did qualify? Again, Iâll make the point that itâs pretty funny that youâre counting a Late Late Show appearance in your list of criticisms of the guy. Once again it further confirms that you have an irrational dislike for him. Why else would you give a shit? Why else would you even suggest that Stephen Ireland has a better attitude?
[quote=âKIB man, post: 541300â]If anyone was having a look at shoulder chips I would suggest a former AIL player would rank highest among all during this discussion with curry cheese and whatever else on top. Higher than even the players mentioned on this thread and appearing to be getting personally indignant defending a player he reportedly only sees playing 10 times or less every 2 years. First off, Keane has made himself a very wealthy man at a very high level of football. He has a fine goalscoring record at international level but also club level leaving aside the last two seasons. He has done very well for himself and should be applauded for that. I think he could have been even better. I dont think he was the greatest professional in the game, was often in poor physical condition, never learned to head the ball, his effort on the pitch was often questionable and you wouldnt need to be deluded to suggest that if he had improved on these matters that he would have been even better.
[/quote]
Of course nobody is going to argue that he wouldnât have been better if he improved.
His heading isnât fantastic, maybe it could have been improved. Everyone could improve some aspect of their game. Itâs hardly unique to Robbie Keane that heâs not the perfect player.
I think his attitude has been top class. I accept others donât agree but I think some are blinded by personal dislikes for him (as in your case), sheer idiocy (Kev) or just listening to Mac too much (Pikeman).
If you see multiple quotes in a post, then you can been pretty sure that itâs either Rocko or KIB on their high horse over something.
Ah donât be ridiculous FFS. Healy has been knocking around the lower divisions, and sub benches of EPL clubs for years - hardly has the credibilty of Keane as a player.
The rest of that rubbish has more or less been addressed already so I wonât bother.
No, I highlighted his good spells at clubs, his goalscoring record and that I used to be a big fan of him. Then I gave his negative aspects of which, you rightly point out, there are many.
I think they were failures because he did not succeed at those clubs and was shipped out/had to leave for the most part.
Since Stauntonâs time, I think he has been poor and infuriating in the majority of Irelandâs games but he has a had a handful of good ones also.
He still scores in the odd game of course but even a useless keeper will save plenty of shots over time.
Thereâs no one fighting hard and fast for his signature in the last few years either.
He pisses me off watching him play, I wish he didnât, but he does.
[quote=âPikeman, post: 541313â]
No, I highlighted his good spells at clubs, his goalscoring record and that I used to be a big fan of him. Then I gave his negative aspects of which, you rightly point out, there are many.
I think they were failures because he did not succeed at those clubs and was shipped out/had to leave for the most part.
Since Stauntonâs time, I think he has been poor and infuriating in the majority of Irelandâs games but he has a had a handful of good ones also.
He still scores in the odd game of course but even a useless keeper will save plenty of shots over time.
Thereâs no one fighting hard and fast for his signature in the last few years either.
He pisses me off watching him play, I wish he didnât, but he does.[/quote]
I think that last line sums up your view of him, which is making you fill in the rest really.
As Puke pointed out, he wasnât shipped out Leeds that time. They sold him because they needed the money.
At Liverpool I have already pointed out why I think he was nowhere near a failure - itâs not his fault he was dealing with Rafa Benitez now was it? Maybe Rafa realised that he had paid way over the odds of Keane (which he did) and thought if he left it longer then he would get fuck all of the 20 million back. Either way it doesnât point to Keane being a failure because he wasnât.
As for the point on the useless keepers being out there - well that is just ridiculous so I wonât go any further with it.
Nah, just Rocko, the other fella just bolds his text inside someone elses quote.
Newcastle & Fulham both looking to sign SWP
:rolleyes:
I was merely addressing the point ye were making about all the goals he scored for Ireland, as if that was an excuse for everything else.
I donât know if you go to watch Ireland internationals farmer but itâs only when you see him live that you realise how little work he does. Heâs a good goal poacher but he makes fuck all of the goals for himself & fuck all chances for anyone else.
He doesnât even make runs to make space for his teammates as heâs always running into the box hoping for his goal and clogging the space in front of him.
From what Iâve seen the majority of his goals comes from the work of others Quinn etc early on and Doyle of late.
In summary he is lazy, moaning, arse turning, headless, selfish and cowardly.
He is however a good man to stick it in the net. It doesnât gloss over his faults but its a useful skill none the less.
Robbie Keaneâs movement and workrate is top class. Not sure what other people are looking for in a slightly built striker but there seems to be resentment that he doesnât physically bully defenders. His physique doesnât tend to allow for that. I donât have complaints with his bravery or determination for the winners against Georgia and Cyprus in the last campaign.
I simply canât fathom the criticism of this Birmingham thing. The club didnât make him an offer but heâs taking criticism for not going there. And why the fuck should he have jumped to go there even if they had come in first? Heâs got a week or two to decide on the best move for himself and his family. Should everyone looking to move jobs take the first offer that comes to them? His career shows heâs not happy sitting on the bench and not being involved. I expect heâll move by the end of the month.
I am not filling in the rest. Itâs because of all Iâve highlighted that he pisses me off sure.
The keeper analogy was a just a simple one to say stats can hide how poor a player really is. Might not be a good analogy but I used it anyway.
At Leeds, he hardly got a sniff in his second season there, surplus to requirements and costs and sold him.
At Liverpool he was a failure-Rafa realised what a shite transfer he had made, so obviously had to get rid of him quick as you say to get most of the money back on him. Harry is realising the same with Robbie for the last while.
Birmingham and Wolves are the only clubs showing interest, a lot of managers out there seem to think Robbie ainât a good enough player either.
Itâs typical Irish begrudgery, Bandage. Our greatest striker ever and we turn him into a mediocre journeyman.
[size=â1â]*I know the meaning of this word has been debated here before but Iâm using it anyway[/size]
Iâm with Julio and Pikeman on this one. Iâm not doubting Keanes ability to find himself in good positions around the box but he makes himself very easy to mark by not challenging defenders or shouting and moaning when a pass is 2 yards either side of him. I had never realised this part of his game until i saw it in person at games as the camera never picks it up.
Wow stop the presses, Mac agrees with Pikeman shocker.
This thread has now firmly established that Keane is shit at soccerball in comparison with most of his EPL friends who make 65k a Week,its after taking until now for these EPL manager and buyer people to realise this,the game is up.
Regarding the criticism for his previous moves, would any player have turned down the moves or done things differently.
Wolves to Coventry - An average Championship team to a mid table Premiership team at the time.
Coventry to Inter - Absolutely no-one would have turned this down.
Inter to Leeds - things werenât working out in Italy and he wasnât getting near the team. Moving back to the Premiership made perfect sense.
Leeds to Spurs - turned out to be a brilliant move for him and produced his best form.
Spurs to Liverpool - With hindsight it was a bad move but at the time most people would have said it was a great move for him. Even more so if he really had supported Liverpool as he claimed.
Liverpool to Spurs - Again after things hadnât worked out, which was mainly down to Benitez giving him roles that he was not suited to, surely he was right to go back to the club where he had most success?
Even his loan to Celtic was done for the right reasons - to get playing regular football and scoring goals. So for those criticising the transfers, mainly Kev I think, how many of those moves would you have disagreed with?