No. I’m not saying that.
What I’m saying is that based on what he does for a living and on his many public achievements, there is the basis to say that TH is/was probably a decent man.
If we were to speculate on the character of Alvin Stardust, who I know fuck all about, you couldn’t say “well he works in the glam rock business so he’s probably decent enough”. It’s not that he’s indecent for being a glam rocker, just that you couldn’t use his profession to form a reasonable basis for the presumption that he’s a decent man.
I see the odious Evening Herald is sailing dangerously close to intimating who this girl is. FFS they won’t be happy until they name the poor kid.
Interesting to read Thraw’s view and the German laws of concent. Broadening the discussion I was interested to learn that in Italy the age of consent is 14 also but this rises to 16 if one of the participants is in a position of influence over the other (ie teacher, tutor, adoptive parent, camogie coach etc.) which I think is a sensible clause by the Italians and would make the alleged perpetrator in this case guilty. He’d be ok in Kosovo though.
On a personal level and without getting too hysterical about it, if my hypothetical daughter, two years out of primary school was being pawed by a Mr Burgess-type character he would find himself having Marlboro Lights being stubbed out on his bloodied face on waste ground within a few weeks.
You’re right of course Taz and this will send that issue centre stage now. Not just womens sport, but any underage set up. I know when I was coaching under 7’s soccer here last year, they had to do a police check on me.
It’s the same here Fitzy.
Anyone involved with underage teams has to undergo Garda vetting.
Humphries got it wrong big style here. No amount of being a decent guy behind it all can make up for this alleged crime. As stated umpteen times above, he had the opportunity to walk away. He’s an intelligent man, so would have known that this activity is wrong in the extreme.
If he liked her that much, then couldn’t he have waited a few years for her to reach consensual age?
If it was my daughter that was abused, I wouldn’t be making any excuses for him.
If it is a mental illness that lets him think this is OK, then maybe being locked up for life might be best for everybody.
I must admit Thraw’s posts here have taken me out of my comfort zone, so I’ve googled the age of consent in a few european countries.
Canada, Germany, Italy and seven other European countries already have an equal age of consent of 14, which applies either in all or some circumstances. This policy is supported by a broad consensus among political parties, child welfare groups and education authorities. Why? Because it works. Compared to Britain, most of these countries have fewer teenage pregnancies, abortions and HIV infections. In the Netherlands, the teen pregnancy rate is seven times less than in the UK, and the average age of first sexual intercourse is slightly higher. This debunks the claim that a reduction to 14 will encourage earlier sexual experimentation and promiscuity.
I dislike the crude age of consent approach, which, to reduce it to an absurd scenario, suggests someone miraculously becomes sexually aware on the occasion of their 16th birthday, having been liable to commit a crime less than 24 hrs previously.
The sliding scale seems like a reasonable approach, within say 2 years or so.
I’m not sure I’m entirely comfortable with the idea of 16 year olds being free to do as they please, much less 14 year olds, but we must pick some starting point for obvious reasons, rather than shirking the issue because it’s an touchy subject. (no pun intended)
Equally, I could imagine my 15 year old self mounting a spirited argument in favour of lowering the age of consent , and I’m pretty sure I’d be unable to convince him that he couldn’t fully comprehend what he was arguing in favour of. I’d be inclined to agree that whatever age of consent is decided upon, it should apply equally to both genders.
All that being said, a 47 year old cannot have an improper relationship with a minor and expect sympathy and understanding from me. The girl may or may not have understood what she was getting involved in (likely did not, but arguable nonetheless) but a married father has simply no excuse. The fact that the man was a prominent and (heretofore) respected journalist, that some people feel an affinity toward, should not cloud the issue. Charles Manson was also a brilliant writer, it shouldn’t merit leniency.
interesting way of looking at it.
contrast humphries with rod liddle, born 1960, who divorced his wife for a 22 year-old.
or “ran off with a young wan” as dunphy memorably put it.
Liddle was then 44, but nobody is suggesting what he did was as heinous as Humphries’ alleged crime.
Another couple of things I was thinking about…people were expressing amazement at age of consents in other Euro countries being 13 and 14, well, I could probably see Ireland going that way in time due to how much the internet etc has changed our society and kids maturing at a younger age. I think I was 16 when I first viewed hardcore pornography. Boys are about 11 or 12 now they say, maybe younger, because it’s so freely available. And going by the biology experiment that is Wesley RFC junior disco, girls are at serious sexual behaviour at a frighteningly young age. I went to the same disco from 14-17 and from talking to my 17 year old cousins who now go, I can confirm that things have changed dramatically. They’re just a couple of examples.
Maybe in 20 years time we’ll all have 14 year old girlfriends.
instead of getting hung up on age and what not, just look at it from the point of view that he was a mentor and took advantage of the situation. it was his responsibility to look after this girl, and he didnt. If she was 16 and at the age of consent and in his trust, I would still have the same opinion. much int he same way of a teacher also, or other people who are entrusted by parents of these kids to be looked after by mentors. and you are still trying to justify that 14 year olds are more mature now. I dont know why you are still going down that route.
also thraw, your post completley contradicts how you think Humphries is a decent person by stating -
you couldn’t use his profession to form a reasonable basis for the presumption that he’s a decent man
. so all your logic about how you think he comes across as sound is surely flawed if you think you cant base a glam rock person on their profession. it doesnt matter what walk of life someone comes from, everyone is human and equal in that sense.
And for all his talk about trying to promote camogie in Dublin he has gone and set it back years.
Thrawreen is still keeeping this up. :rolleyes:
I wasn’t talking about TH in the first part Gman, I was taking up t_e’s musings on the age of consent.
The second part…go back and read what I said again! If you are to look at someone who you don’t know personally in order to form a reasonable probability of their decency you look at the facts of their existence. Family situation, profession etc.
Respected journalist, employed with a very respected national newspaper = you could probably think this is a decent person
70s glam rocker, industry awash with vice and featured many dubious characters and crooks (eg Jonathon King) = Maybe a decent person but you could not say they probably are by their profession alone.
I’m some fool discussing things on a discussion board alright
Not at all, you’re a fool for not seeing what this fella has allegedly done wrong.
Of course I see what he’s done wrong. :rolleyes:
When you manage to climb out of your personal stew of righteous indignation I would recommend you read through the thread again.
I think this thread jumped the shark when we started discussing glam rockers.
so using your logic, sarah carey and john waters are alright sorts ?
:rolleyes:
It’s pretty obvious the point he is trying to make.
Stop nit-picking
+1
I think it’s plain for all to see the point Thrawneen is making WRT someone’s profession.
Decent profession = decent human being ie.
Garda
Nurse
Doctor
Fireman
Politician
Journalist
etc.
Sleezy Profession = sleezy human being ie.
1970’s glam rocker
Binman
IT Technician
Accountant
Bouncer
etc.
politician ? youre having a laugh. Anyway, judge a person by their deeds and not profession