Serious problem underage with the city clubs (the Boro in particular) fielding better players from country clubs.
True enough.
Every game is a new game. The Shamrocks were kind of complacent going into the 2020 semi final – inevitably, in a way, given two massive wins – and were all but caught. But surviving such a shave adds to the mystique and makes them still harder to beat.
If the Shamrocks meet The Village in 2021, they will be well up for it. Element of ambush is gone.
Dicksboro, after 2020 County Final, will find it hard to close such a gap in a mere year. If Dicksboro meet Ballyhale Shamrocks in 2021, it will be a bit like Waterford meeting Kilkenny in 2009 AI semi final, when the former were ‘happy’ to be beaten by five points.
OLG danger team in 2021. And some random day against a mid ranking team who score goals and catch the Shamrocks cold.
On Clara… Lucky to beat Carrickshock in 2013. And got an OLG side in 2015 that had played their County Final in the semi final – same as James Stephens in 2017.
Last year, I was at the Ballyhale Shamrocks-Clara Junior match the weekend before the clubs met at Senior. Clara won that one handy. The Senior draw was on the radio during the second half. As this draw took place, I happened to be up the sideline with a big group of Clara Senior hurlers behind me.
The last two names left in the bag were Ballyhale Shamrocks and Clara. So the players realized their draw before it was officially announced. They burst out in collective laughter. I was astonished and turned around for a look, covering myself by asking: “Is it us again at Senior, lads?” “Yes”, they said, in a boil of laughter.
Once home that evening, I rang a good friend who likes a serious punt, told him the story and said: “Have a right go at the Shamrocks with a big handicap. They will beat Clara out the gate.” He did – and made a nice three figure return.
The problem was that beating Clara out the gate was manna to James Stephens…
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Don’t think that statement is true. ‘Poaching’ implies active intent. If you go to St Canice’s NS, you are entitled to derogate to play with Dicksboro. Are you talking about Threecastles?
There is a much bigger debate about young lads from St John’s Parish – Castlecomer Road, say – who go to St Canice’s NS and end up with Dicksboro. I am told – but cannot say for sure – six or seven of the 2017 Dicksboro Féile-winning team were St John’s residents.
What went wrong for Shamrocks in 15, 16, 17 that they ended up going out so tamely and when did James Fitzpatrick last play?
Was the Club All Ireland in 2015 his last game?
Fair point, poaching is inflammatory and I’ll amend the post. They had 1 lad from Dunamaggin and another from the Bridge on their minor panel last year as far as I know. A few people I know have a serious bee in their bonnet about it.
I’m from John’s parish originally but the country end - Dunmore. Our primary schools were/are DEIS, unfashionable, poor and not where the residents of Richview or The Weir like to send their children. Lots of them go to Canices or The Gaelscoil and do end up in The 'Boro but OLG still has huge underage numbers itself even if a lot of them don’t go to the parish schools
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Well, I presume – correctly? – this scenario, if accurate, came about because said two young lads went to St Canice’s NS and then hurled U14 with Dicksboro. If so, this eventuality made Dicksboro their ‘home club’.
This click is the actual rule (now based on U13, of course): if you play a championship game at U13 for a club, and there is no (successful) objection, said club is ever after your home club. The time for Bennettsbridge and Dunnamaggin to address the issue was when those two young lads were in first year of secondary school.
I reckon it unlikely that there is a club in Kilkenny without someone outside the club’s home parish within its ranks. Ballyhale Shamrocks, due to national school attendance factor, have players from Aghavillar and Thomastown within their ranks. No poaching was involved.
The ‘derogation’ ruling in the 1990s changed the picture. Pádraig Walsh lives in the parish of Kilmanagh – but why should he not be hurling for Tullaroan, since he went to national school there?
Being realistic, too, Dicksboro have no need to poach anyone, given their juvenile numbers and their level of juvenile success.
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Eoin Kelly had already won an All Ireland before he went to Kierans.
Does that not prove my point? Only 4 players from senior clubs involved in 2019 all ireland minor final.
Yeah, an article by an obscure writer would be the lever, not the ten Celtic Crosses and the two Club All Irelands as a manager…
Take a breath and think about that logic for a minute.
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Not sure what you point is. Was it about city clubs dominating?
The traditional clubs do not seem to be producing talent underage of late.
Who would be regarded as the “traditional clubs”? Tullaroan for one. After that…?
I wouldn’t have thought Kilkenny have many traditional clubs who are always competing. Maybe Ballyhale, James Stephens and O’Loughlins are generally good but apart from that teams seem to move through the grades fairly regularly and a lot of different clubs can contend in different eras
The ones you name are actually a mixed bag.
Tullaroan: uber tradional, yes.
Graigue-Ballycallan: no. Founded in 1969. Coming back strong at underage.
Clara: no. Founded in early 1960s, I think.
Carrickshock: no such club (original club was founded in Ballyhale in 1928). Current club is Carrickshock United, a mid to late 1960s amalgamation of Carrickshock and St Brendan’s (Stoneyford).
Dunnamaggin: not really a traditional club (although an excellent club and one I admire), in that they did not reach Senior until mid 1990s.
The traditional clubs would be Mooncoin, Tullaroan, James Stephens, Dicksboro, Bennettsbridge and Threecastles (Junior C and barely in existence). St John’s Parish in town – now O’Loughlin Gaels – has a really long tradition of producing Kilkenny hurlers and so could be counted a traditional parish. Same for Ballyhale Parish, which has had at least one native involved with every Senior All Ireland-winning outfit 1922-2015, a distinction no other parish holds.
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See above for my attempt at a round up.
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What was there before then? Was there an amalgamation of sorts between a Kilmanagh team and someone else?
a few Tipp lads peaking in over the wall at the neighbours wife here 
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Yes, two teams, Graigue and Ballycallan.
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The big towns in KK, would they have 6 senior titles between them? Callan have one in ‘58. How many would thomastown and Castlecomer have?