If I said up Bumbles would say down.
Throw up the championship team DOG selected in his last game and compare it to what Allen picked the following year. DOG had players out of position all over the place and couldn’t sort the spine of the team, Allen straigtened it in his first year and built on that massively in his second. DOG would not have managed what Allen did in my opinion.
I think Richie McCarthy was corner forward in 2011. Had O’Grady tried him at full back that year we’d probably have got over Waterford, Dublin or both.
Allen was a shrewd operator, no histrionics. The way the players were gutted over his departure summed up the esteem in which he was held by the squad. Beating Tipp in HQ in 2013 was all the sweeter after we ran out of steam against them in Thurles 12 months before when we had them by the throat.
A completely different style of leader to DOG, empowered the players and his coaches and trusted them to lead and do their jobs. Similar to Kiely in that.
John Allen was desperately unlucky not to deliver the All Ireland at the first time of asking too. Hickey’s injury and Hannon’s implosion in the 2013 semi cost us a real shot at winning that All Ireland. Clare were the better team that day, but we were in that match until close to the end, despite having had pretty much everything go against us.
His plan of summoning Dowling and Downes late on in games to turn the screw once the “work horses” had put in their stint is very similar to the game plan that did eventually bring us over the line
Richie played 11 v Clare in Ennis .
Where was Richie playing his Club & College Hurling at the time?
In 2013 JA got an out of sort TIpp in semi and a 14 man cork team in Munster final . He had the team work organized with a decent plan .
He was very slow to spot what was going wrong v Clare in Croke Park .
The loss of hickey that day can’t be underestimated, it was hickey’s role and insane work rate that made that game plan work. In hindsight maybe should have gone for broke and thrown on Dowling or downes when hickey went off. Lost that game by a margin of 7 -the 4 handy missed frees and a poxy goal in the end. In the other semi Dublin should have won but for O’Dwyer being unfairly sent off.
Or Limerick 1973
So who was a better 6 than Hannon over past 25 years bar Carey (who could easily play anywhere else)?? We had no established 6 from 97 to 2000 really, Ciarán fluctuated from there to midfield and it wasn’t until they switched Geary from corner back to 6 that we had a centre back. Geary was centre back for most of the 00s and while I liked him and thought he was a good player I don’t believe he was better than Hannon there. We then had a myriad of players in the position from 2011 to 2016, including Wayne Mac, Dodge, Seamie Hickey and Gavin O’Mahony, none of whom nailed the position down and it wasn’t their best position. Some did well enough there but none better than Hannon imo.
So how is that drinking the kool aid? 
The Hickey role was always utterly overstated that year . He was solid .
There was no action to counteract the 2nd centre back . The gap was really 10 points that day. Clare never really drove home their superiority that day .
You’re very bad lately, you’re like a sausage at the end of a string
I don’t think it is overstated to be honest. Clare were superior that day but not to the degree people perceive I think. Had the missed frees gone over there’d have been nothing in it and there was a chance for momentum to shift.
Possibly but if Tipp and Cork took their goals chances in the Munster games …
The point was Lk were a bit flat that day but the Clare sweeper ( 2 nd centre back ) played utter havoc and the sideline did nothing .
Identical really when you look at it. Definitely a better squad this year, and the puckouts were on another level, but the template is the same.
You seem to be switching the context from best 6 in the country, to best 6 for your county - maybe I took you up wrong. He had a great year last year, but he needs a bigger body of work before you anoint him. He may yet too, the current set-up is ideal for him.
The midfield - half back line axis on the Lk team worked well but in the second half in Ennis and from the 25 th to 52 nd minute v cork teams look to have it decoded .
Interesting to see how we set up next year and what teams do to combat it .
I think you are being unfair to him there. Limerick hadn’t won a match in Munster since 07 nor Munster since 96. That same Tipp team had destroyed the Dublin team that beat Limerick (and would go on to win Leinster) just a few weeks previously.
He couldn’t have vouched for the Hickey injury (which I think help Clare’s game plan massively) or the Hannon breakdown. He still delivered more than all bar two of our managers have in the last 37 years, and did it with a team very few fancied at the start of the year.