Morning after and reflecting on it
Chelsea needed to win. Liverpool didn’t. Liverpool were forcing the game and Gerrard mistake he is the last man back even though playing holding midfield role. Wonder if in hindsight Rodgers will think that he should have sat back because Mourinho expected Liverpool to come at them.
Chelsea to win the Champions League final on penalties might be worth a punt as when they set themselves up not to conceded and simply dig it there are very few teams better at it.
This is one of the main points being over looked by many… Chelsea captialised on a mistake, other than that it was putrid from them— But the lack of alternatives on the Liverpool bench allowed them to sit and just bang it away. Liverpool are very much a team set up to hit on the counter at pace and I knew when Chelsea got their noses in front that was probably game over.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 937995, member: 2272”]Morning after and reflecting on it
Chelsea needed to win. Liverpool didn’t. Liverpool were forcing the game and Gerrard mistake he is the last man back even though playing holding midfield role. Wonder if in hindsight Rodgers will think that he should have sat back because Mourinho expected Liverpool to come at them.
Chelsea to win the Champions League final on penalties might be worth a punt as when they set themselves up not to conceded and simply dig it there are very few teams better at it.[/QUOTE]
Christ I hope they d0n’t make it to the final- it will ruin the whole thing having to watch that muck.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 937995, member: 2272”] Liverpool were forcing the game and Gerrard mistake he is the last man back even though playing holding midfield role.
.[/QUOTE]
you are the second person who has made reference to this and it is not really a valid point. The role of a deep lying play maker is often to drop in and almost become a third centre half. This allows them more time on the ball along with more space for his side when on the ball and also to take the ball forward rather than playing 10 or 15 yards ahead of the centre halves and which makes it easier for the opposition to press them. There is no real point in blaming him for being the last man
I just don’t get this. How can an English football club mean so much to Irish lads? Yeah, follow / support 1 for the crack, but jasyus, the carry on and outpouring of emotion towards LFC in the past few weeks has been baffling to me. Watched 2nd half in a packed pub yesterday, can only describe it as a collective nervous breakdown. Yes, I’m a Leeds and Barcelona fan, like Celtic and Arsenal too, but the only teams that really matter to me are Nenagh AFC, Nenagh Eire Og hurling teams, Tipperary hurlers, Irish football team.
[QUOTE=“farmerinthecity, post: 937989, member: 24”]My thoughts on the game:
Jose Mourinho is a horrible cunt. Sure he got the result and has an excellent track record but he is despicable. The carry on with the fans at the end summed him up. I was at the Fulham match where the fans were shouting for him to wave and he ignored them all game. Then suddenly in a much more charged atmosphere and bigger match on TV , he makes gestures at them to rile them up more and starts banging the crest. I am sure it was the love of Chelsea that brought him there and nothing to do with the truck load of cash offered to him by Abramhovic in terms of wages and money to spend on players.
Another examples of the cuntishness of him was the clear tactic of delaying the taking of throws, free kicks and pretending to be injuries to slow down Liverpool’s tempo. But what was worse than was Martin Atkinson’s performance who should have thrown out the yellow cards to cut out the cynicalness but inexblicably didn’t.
Liverpool’s threadbare squad was really exposed. In the first half they played 4-1-3-1-1 which meant the Suarez and Sterling were the only forwards with Coutinho and Lucas/Allen supporting. Suarez was double marked by Callas and Ivanovic. The only option for changing was to bring on Sturridge who was a mile off the pace. After that it was the likes of Iago Aspas. This is an area where I would worry for in terms of winning their last two matches and believe it or not, I can see it difficult for us to score.
Rodgers referred to Chelsea parking two buses. I don’t think that was true. Ba was the outlet all the time and is a handful but they also had Salah and Schurrle breaking forward to support. I think it was more a case that Liverpool had little options in attack. Also why would they park the bus? They had to win. The tactic was clear - use what ever type of showmanship to slow the game up and make it scrappy to knock Liverpool out of their stride and play on the break.
Mourinho afterwards referred to the fact that Chelsea deserved to win. If you look at it their two goals came from a slip (why was Gerrard the last man?!!) and a break when all Liverpool’s players had been committed forward. I don’t think they had a chance of note otherwise. Liverpool had better chances while never really threatening hugely either.
In terms of Liverpool I though we defended reasonably well - Sakho initially and then Skrtel did well on Ba and Johnson and Flano were decent. Attack wise we were poor although Coutinho probed quite well.
I think Man City will win it now.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. He’s a proper asshole. All the attention afterwards will suit him down to the ground though. And Sky indulged his every moment with cameras cutting to him every time there was any sort of incident.
Atkinson was really poor. He missed a couple of yellow cards for Liverpool players I thought (Flanagan for hand ball and Johnson for a block on Schurrle in the first half) but his tactic of pointing at his watch every time there was time wasting was silly. I think it’s time to be properly strict on time wasting. They introduced that “six second rule” for goalkeepers a few seasons ago and it’s not enforced at all anymore.
I thought Liverpool started brightly but Sterling came inside then and there was no space there. They continued to get room down the outside but didn’t make much of those situations. It’s the continued problem that teams have against compact defences but there were ways of getting Suarez and Sterling on the ball at the perimeter of the box that they should have been using more frequently. Both are well capable of beating a man and hitting cross-shots and both are liable to be fouled in those areas too.
After the first few minutes I thought Gerrard was dictating things well. He was keeping the passing going at a decent tempo and switching the play well but not in those floaty balls he sometimes favours, just crisp passes along the ground to hit the full backs and wingers. Then after about 10 minutes he went a bit deeper and started hitting more lofty diagonals that were too easy to defend. It’s like he/Liverpool went to a Plan B too early. And then in the second half they did much more of that and always looked too desperate to create shots, instead of trying to work the ball around narrow channels just outside the Chelsea defence.
Indeed. And Willian did more of that breaking in support when he came on. Ba was like an off-form Eoghan O’Gara. He won lots of ball but just couldn’t lay it off and seemed to lose confidence as the game went on, despite the goal.
Gerrard just dropped back there to pick up a pass and try and get on the ball from there. That wasn’t really an issue, that’s what he always does. Just took his eye off the ball and then slipped when he panicked to recover it. The young centre back Kalas had a great chance to score just before the Ba goal. There was a mistake and a breakaway goal but Chelsea had the 3 best chances in fairness. Coutinho’s volley was probably Liverpool’s best was it? (I may be forgetting some now).
I thought Ba bullied the two centre backs actually. Schwarzer’s kicking was very good but the two full backs were no help to their centre backs. Ba drifted out to the wing and inexplicably was just followed by whichever centre back (Sakho first half, Skrtel usually in the second half) with the full backs watching. The full backs should have occupied that space and made sure Ba couldn’t take the ball down. He had few options to flick it on to but Liverpool seemed to be afraid to overcommit on that first ball, with the consequence that Ba kept getting possession.
That feeds back to your #4 point. Chelsea did need to win. They were as disruptive as possible but their gameplan wouldn’t have worked if Liverpool hadn’t allowed them to repeatedly win possession in Liverpool’s half.
Yes that is how they play but in a game like yesterday no need to play that way as Chelsea had retreated to their own half other than Ba. Chelsea executed their game plan perfectly. Could have scored more goals on the break if Ba had got his head up once or twice. Liverpool needed to adapt, sit back and see what Chelsea made of that.
Personally speaking, I love the You Never Walk Alone message of the club. I also love the culture where the players and management readily interact with the employees of the club. For instance yesterday, Jose Enrique was walking around the pitch at the start and went over to the many of the stewards and shook their hand. I also love the feel around the city where football is life or death to them.
Yes I am Irish but I don’t think you have to be English to respect that. And support it.
As a dweller of a port city on the Irish Sea I feel a natural affinity to Liverpool.
Liverpool is also my local Premier League team.
[QUOTE=“farmerinthecity, post: 938005, member: 24”]Personally speaking, I love the You Never Walk Alone message of the club. I also love the culture where the players and management readily interact with the employees of the club. For instance yesterday, Jose Enrique was walking around the pitch at the start and went over to the many of the stewards and shook their hand. I also love the feel around the city where football is life or death to them.
Yes I am Irish but I don’t think you have to be English to respect that. And support it.[/QUOTE]
Liverpool is a club apart and if people don’t get what it means, that’s their problem.
Mourinho is some cunt-he should have set Chelsea up to play in a really open way knowing that this would suit Liverpool and just see who came out on top. They probably would have lost if he did but shur fuck it.
Suarez had a shot towards the end more or less straight at Schwartzer who pushed it over.
Joe Allen also had a shot in the second half which Schwartzer saved.
Yeah - full back could have done better I suppose in terms of cutting out the space. But neither are necessarily good in the air. I think it is unfair to say that Ba bullied Skrtel and Sakho. He is very good in the air and very strong so in that sense he was bullying them but I thought they both held up well apart from maybe one instance with Sakho in the second half.
I’d agree on Gerrard. Good in the first half but maybe too impatient in the second but I could understand his frustration. I got a text off a mate last night giving out about Gerrard and how he was less interested in Liverpool winning and just tried to be a hero. Utter bullshit.
Playing like Chelsea played yesterday is not easy. It looks awful. The mentality behind it though will cost Chelsea trophies as they can come unstuck when they meet another spoiling side.
With the money available to Chelsea you expect they can sign players and overwhelm the opposition. That is what United did under Ferguson and what City do - it works domestically. However Chelsea way of playing probably means that in Europe they will be more successful than Ferguson was or City will be as the best teams can pick you off if you play that way and don’t get the breaks/have an off day.
I don’t have a problem with him playing defensively and breaking. That’s just using your head and adapting tactics to suit the situation.
It was the cynicalness that pissed me off (but more so Atkinson’s ineptitude to stop it).
And also of course the fact that he is utter cunt of a human being.
Liverpool won 3 trophies (or 5 according to Houllier) in 2001 playing much the same way.
[QUOTE=“farmerinthecity, post: 937989, member: 24”]My thoughts on the game:
Jose Mourinho is a horrible cunt. Sure he got the result and has an excellent track record but he is despicable. The carry on with the fans at the end summed him up. I was at the Fulham match where the fans were shouting for him to wave and he ignored them all game. Then suddenly in a much more charged atmosphere and bigger match on TV , he makes gestures at them to rile them up more and starts banging the crest. I am sure it was the love of Chelsea that brought him there and nothing to do with the truck load of cash offered to him by Abramhovic in terms of wages and money to spend on players.
Another examples of the cuntishness of him was the clear tactic of delaying the taking of throws, free kicks and pretending to be injuries to slow down Liverpool’s tempo. But what was worse than was Martin Atkinson’s performance who should have thrown out the yellow cards to cut out the cynicalness but inexblicably didn’t.
Liverpool’s threadbare squad was really exposed. In the first half they played 4-1-3-1-1 which meant the Suarez and Sterling were the only forwards with Coutinho and Lucas/Allen supporting. Suarez was double marked by Callas and Ivanovic. The only option for changing was to bring on Sturridge who was a mile off the pace. After that it was the likes of Iago Aspas. This is an area where I would worry for in terms of winning their last two matches and believe it or not, I can see it difficult for us to score.
Rodgers referred to Chelsea parking two buses. I don’t think that was true. Ba was the outlet all the time and is a handful but they also had Salah and Schurrle breaking forward to support. I think it was more a case that Liverpool had little options in attack. Also why would they park the bus? They had to win. The tactic was clear - use what ever type of showmanship to slow the game up and make it scrappy to knock Liverpool out of their stride and play on the break.
Mourinho afterwards referred to the fact that Chelsea deserved to win. If you look at it their two goals came from a slip (why was Gerrard the last man?!!) and a break when all Liverpool’s players had been committed forward. I don’t think they had a chance of note otherwise. Liverpool had better chances while never really threatening hugely either.
In terms of Liverpool I though we defended reasonably well - Sakho initially and then Skrtel did well on Ba and Johnson and Flano were decent. Attack wise we were poor although Coutinho probed quite well.
I think Man City will win it now.[/QUOTE]
My Response to your thoughts.
Correct.
You got a bit from the ref as well. Should have been a peno for handball at the end of the first half. Trying to stop Liverpool’s early momentum was a pretty important part of the tactics. Inexplicable has a p although it can sound like a b when said.
So Gerrard was deep, behind Lucas and Allen? Sounds silly seen as Liverpool had most of the possession and Chelsea were sitting very deep.
Correct. I would say gamesmanship rather than showmanship but we won’t split hairs.
They deserved to win. Your agument seems to be that if you take away their goals, they had nothing (you neglect to mention Schurrle’s shot low that was well saved) but they had a system that was set up to nullify Liverpool and beat them. You even outline it in point 4. ‘Ba was the outlet all the time and is a handful but they also had Salah and Schurrle breaking forward to support. I think it was more a case that Liverpool had little options in attack.’
Incorrect. The defense was poor. One of your players(the last man) failed to control the ball and then jumped on the ground. In the second half Chelsea had better situations every time they countered, but were possibly hampered by the absence of some of their best breaking attackers in Hazard, Oscar, Eto and Willian until he came on.
I do too, and it sits with me as the lesser of three evils, weirdly.
You know right well that the point is that Chelsea and his last club are the two richest clubs in the world, with the ability to outbid anybody for any player, yet he continues to produce appalling football, and seriously, it is fucking appalling stuff.
The dice has always been loaded in Mourinho’s favour in terms of money to spend. He’s a specialist in making a sow’s ear from a silk purse.
[QUOTE=“Juhniallio, post: 938019, member: 53”]My Response to your thoughts.
Correct.
You got a bit from the ref as well. Should have been a peno for handball at the end of the first half. Trying to stop Liverpool’s early momentum was a pretty important part of the tactics. Inexplicable has a p although it can sound like a b when said.
So Gerrard was deep, behind Lucas and Allen? Sounds silly seen as Liverpool had most of the possession and Chelsea were sitting very deep.
Correct. I would say gamesmanship rather than showmanship but we won’t split hairs.
They deserved to win. Your agument seems to be that if you take away their goals, they had nothing (you neglect to mention Schurrle’s shot low that was well saved) but they had a system that was set up to nullify Liverpool and beat them. You even outline it in point 4. ‘Ba was the outlet all the time and is a handful but they also had Salah and Schurrle breaking forward to support. I think it was more a case that Liverpool had little options in attack.’
Incorrect. The defense was poor. One of your players(the last man) failed to control the ball and then jumped on the ground. In the second half Chelsea had better situations every time they countered, but were possibly hampered by the absence of some of their best breaking attackers in Hazard, Oscar, Eto and Willian until he came on.
I do too, and it sits with me as the lesser of three evils, weirdly.[/QUOTE]
Juhy, are you a supporter of Manchester United?
Yeah, 5-4 in the UEFA Cup Final. Exactly the same.