One of my teacher friends spent a year in an Educate Together cc @Bandage - She told me about this lesson she designed for them on love… and the different types of love … love between friends, parents and children, man and woman, woman and woman, man and man … I said, that’s lovely - and forward thinking … and she said , well yeah, there were 3 kids in the class with lesbian parents and another with homosexual parents …
I know we want our kids to grow up to accept everyone - but do you really want this shit in your life?
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I got married in a church.
Neither myself nor my missus go to Mass.
I frankly couldn’t care less.
over here the schools are state run. If you want your kids to have religion classes you have to sign them up. Communion training takes place in the school for those signed up but confirmation training is done completely outside the school system.
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Right, I’ll begin by saying that the single greatest influence on a child fulfilling their academic potential is the home. This does not mean that parents should be constantly nagging/pushing their child to do better etc., it simply means taking an interest and encourage them to do their best.
The language we use and how we use it can be quite debilitating. I have seen parents ruin kids by expecting/demanding them to achieve academically/sportingly what a child is simply not equipped to achieve. If you go down that route, you are inviting a world of misery and mental health issues for your child.
Lead by example in the home and your child will follow suit.
Every school has an ethos, which basically describes the school culture and what is and is’nt valued. The Ethos of fee paying schools is much different from educate together schools and so on.
I teach is a fee paying second level school. If I was asked to sum up our school culture in two words, it would be Rugby and Religion. In what order of importance is debatable. We do well academically as we have parents who are paying 5k in fees so are engaged in their child’s education which leads to the student being more engaged and therefore performing well academically. We offer a wide range of extra curricular activities and are invested heavily in Pastoral Care. At senior cycle all classes are banded/streamed. They literature says this is wrong and I’d agree. It can be soul destroying for kids who find themselves in the bottom stream in all subjects. It certainly does not promote positive mental health from my experience.
I visited an educate together school recently. Their ethos is very different from our own. There is an emphasis on developing citizens who are capable of contributing positively to society. They adopt a very student centre approach to teaching and learning which basically means there is more of an emphasis on developing skills that industry requires for the 21st century rather than a focus on knowledge of content. Students are very happy from what I witnessed but whether this approach prepares students for the rigors of state exams, i’m not so sure. There would not be a strong focus on extra curricular activities as you would find in fee paying schools for example. There is no streaming in educate together schools.
We would argue that we help to develop the skills required for the 21st century through our diverse range of extra curricular activities.
Ultimately, when deciding where to send your child, you must consider what ethos best suits your child and values as a family.
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The Sem streams by entrance exam. Myself and @Chucks_Nwoko were both top stream obviously. I spent most of 5th and 6th class in primary school doing past papers from the St Macartan 's entrance exam.
There was some controversy in my year because ours was the first year where the streams were turned into “bands” of 5 top classes and 2 dopey classes, so there were only 2 divisions in my year whereas there were 5 divisions in chuck’s year.
I have a friend whose mother was so outraged by this that she told Padraig Duffy to either switch back to 5 streams or else she was sending her son to either the Louis Convent, the girls school in town, or, worse again, to St. Pat’s Cavan. Duffy held firm and she cracked and sent him to the Sem.
As it turned out there was a class in my year that had all the teachers kids and they got the best teachers but my class sent till turned into the best performing class in the year (obviously). A lot of the lower band would have ended up doing leaving cert applied. @Chucks_Nwoko - I only realised years later that part of the reason for the change from 5 to 2 bands was that some of the teachers kids weren’t smart enough to get into the top band in a 5 division structure.
Anyhow, @fenwaypark , @Bandage , @TheUlteriorMotive, convince me as to why I should let my genius kids into an unstreamed class with the dopey kids. How would that help them?
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There is a prominent pedagogy (way of teaching) called social constructivism. Basically this promotes group work. The idea is that we all view the world through our own lens. While there is nothing wrong with this per se, being exposed to different perspectives, may make us more tolerant, inclusive and generally a more rounded individual.
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that’s a fucking marvelous post
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It depends on the individual Gaelscoil, not all of them are divested from the diocese, some operate under a Catholic ethos
Friends of ours had similar issues with trying to sign their child up to the local Gaelscoil. The child had previously undergone serious reconstructive surgery following the removal of a tumour. The Gaelscoil were trying to say they couldn’t take him on due to insurance restrictions even though the family had letters from the consultant confirming that he was perfectly able to attend schools and perform activities as per any normal child. They eventually gave in after some serious pressure
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They have a similar ET in Dun Laoghaire which is now into 1st class and they are still in temporary accommodation with a permanent location yet to be confirmed. Considering the speed the department of Education move I doubt those 1st class pupils will ever see the inside of a permanent building during their primary schooling
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Where did it all go wrong for you?
Excellent post. Very well reasoned and informative. You make one of the key points upfront imnvho in that I agree home life is most important in a child fulfilling its educational potential. I’d expand on that and say quality of home life is the most important factor in a child becoming a good citizen full stop. It’s why I glance up from my phone every now and again when I’m at home to see what my son is up to. I’ve even had to abandon TFK posts on occasion to interact with him.
A lot of this is all ahead of me and I’m not doubting there’ll be challenges, but your point on use of language when speaking with a child seems like basic common sense. I guess the trouble with common sense is that it’s not very common (haha). It’s seems like cop on to communicate openly with a child, offer guidance and support etc etc rather than being an enforcer, a rule maker and pitting yourself against them. Sure isn’t that how GGA inter county panels have gone now too - lads want to be part of a collaborative approach rather an authoritarian one.
But no doubting that some people/parents are absolute headbangers and/or thick as shit. It’s a great pity but their kids then stand much less of a chance of achieving their potential.
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I was having this conversation at some stage over Xmas too. There is a cohort in South Dublin who would have high ambitions for their kids and plenty of resources but get their kids into Scoil Lorcain (Monkstown) and then Colaiste Eoin/Iosgain and make a virtue about “not sending the kids to a private school” . Two sides of the same coin imho.
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I’d urge you to not fully abandon the enforcer role also. Children need structure / boundaries and to be told what to do at times… it’s a balancing act, mate. And while I appreciate you a a fraction further along the parenting road than I am - you’re also from Wexford, which sets you a few steps back the road, and you’ve never lived outside Leinster - which shows how insular you are… so please take my more worldly advice on board. There’s a time to talk and a time to fuck them up.
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I lived in America for a summer one time, pal.
And in fairness several gaps in my CV are also filled in with times when I was pretend living abroad.
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I’d like to retract my above accusation so …
Your American revelation - added to the fact you are a successful business man and functioning website admin - has me thinking that an alliance of families, down the road, might be on the cards.
We dont have to force anything, but a few planned holidays and arranging for them to go to the same 3rd level institute could work.
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Do you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of screaming? I made a simple point. Why do you feel under attack just because someone disagrees with you?