[quote=“W.B. Yeats”]I don’t know but its a fucking disgrace. A bunch of scumbag tearaways gun down an innocent man. Was it in the papers at all? I haven’t seen them, I got the impressino from the news this morning that it might have happened late enough compounded by the details only coming out even later.
WBY[/quote]
It’s in the online edition of todays indo anyways. The shooting happened about 7pm last night so it wouldn’t have been that late. I spotted it on the front of one of the red tops alright, but it was only the 3rd item on the 8 o clock news this morning.
[quote=“W.B. Yeats”]THe Joburg programme last night was pretty interesting.
Theroux is classic bleeding heart liberal type and seemed shocked at the level of brutality that was evident. He couldn’t understand why a mob (literally) wanted to burn a local hired security/paramilitary/mercenary type who had broken some thief’s leg. Still the private security were tough boyos, they beat the shit out of some lads chasing another fellow down the street, and then beat the victim as well for good measure- all on camera.
[/quote]
Weren’t you shocked too??
Louis’ style is that naive questioning he does. It makes the guys open up and state what I know is often the obvious but sounds somewhat poignant and revealing when they say it themselves.
Bad Boyz were indeed tough fucks. If we qualify for 2010 I think I’d be giving Lionel a call if we’re in Jo’Burg. Presuming he’s still alive by then. Though that part where they incapacitated each other with pepper spray was pretty fucking comical.
Louis’ style is that naive questioning he does. It makes the guys open up and state what I know is often the obvious but sounds somewhat poignant and revealing when they say it themselves.
Bad Boyz were indeed tough fucks. If we qualify for 2010 I think I’d be giving Lionel a call if we’re in Jo’Burg. Presuming he’s still alive by then. Though that part where they incapacitated each other with pepper spray was pretty fucking comical.[/quote]
I don’t know was I shocked Thrawneen. Did some of the honeymoon in SAf and had read up a lot on the place beforehand.
Whether I was shocked or not is beside the point because there was lots of brutality, violence and random inhumanity.
The bloke who said he’d put your kid in the microwave was fairly scary too.
Bad boys didn’t look that proficient- pepper spraying each other was fairly amateur although they did seem to have “dealt” with the bloke that killed one of theirs.
I suppose the saddest thing about it all was the casaulness of everything. There was no outcry, no sense that there was something wrong going on. Some of that country is an awful place.
[quote=“W.B. Yeats”]. Did some of the honeymoon in SAf and had read up a lot on the place beforehand.
Whether I was shocked or not is beside the point because there was lots of brutality, violence and random inhumanity.
[/quote]
On the honeymoon? May as well start as you mean to go on I suppose.
That’s fair enough I suppose. I’d heard jo’Burg was dangerous but I just couldn’t get over just how fucking lawless it was. Philly last week was Utopia in comparison. And it’s non-stop. Not just a blip or a few weeks of unrest. Who the fuck are the SAf government and what are they gonna do about it?
[quote=“Thrawneen”]On the honeymoon? May as well start as you mean to go on I suppose.
That’s fair enough I suppose. I’d heard jo’Burg was dangerous but I just couldn’t get over just how fucking lawless it was. Philly last week was Utopia in comparison. And it’s non-stop. Not just a blip or a few weeks of unrest. Who the fuck are the SAf government and what are they gonna do about it?[/quote]
Take a look at John Pilger’s documentary on SA if you want to get a grasp on how fucked up things are there. Shows up an awful lot of bullshit about the supposed transformation of the country and the ‘ending’ of apartheid. Real eye opener. Worse even than what Louis revealed last night.
[quote=“Thrawneen”]On the honeymoon? May as well start as you mean to go on I suppose.
That’s fair enough I suppose. I’d heard jo’Burg was dangerous but I just couldn’t get over just how fucking lawless it was. Philly last week was Utopia in comparison. And it’s non-stop. Not just a blip or a few weeks of unrest. Who the fuck are the SAf government and what are they gonna do about it?[/quote]
Stayed well away from Joburg on the honeymoon-believe me, stayed down Cape Town direction.
I think one of the big issues they face is the amount of emigration to SouthAfrica from other African countries- Zimbabwe, Malawi, Nigeria. Because they have something approaching an economy, South Africa is attractive. Squatting in an apartment is probably better than living in a mud hut with no sanitation. The one thing that I noticed out there is that you pay for everything ie there is a lad who directs you into a parking space, he gets paid as well as paying for the parking, somebody washes your windscreen in the petrol station and they get a few rand as well as paying for the petrol.
Having said all of this, it appears that the govt just doesn’t have the cash in order to be able to deal with all the people that are in the country. There are just too many people living in the country. Allied to this is the fact that the apartheid system has left a legacy of millions of poor uneducated, unemployed blacks that have no faith in the police. Its a fucking basket case.
Bumped into an ex colleague of mine last week, she’s emigrating to South Africa. I think she’s nuts.
[quote=“W.B. Yeats”] Allied to this is the fact that the apartheid system has left a legacy of millions of poor uneducated, unemployed blacks that have no faith in the police. Its a fucking basket case.
Bumped into an ex colleague of mine last week, she’s emigrating to South Africa. I think she’s nuts.
WBY[/quote]
Not necessarily that nuts. Another legacy of the apartheid system is the possibility of an incredibly high standard of living alongside massive poverty, provided you have the right skin colour of course.
Agreed
But jobs are very hard come by, and good jobs are like hens’ teeth.
The wages are very low, lots of people on $1000 a year in good jobs that you’d need some college for.
If you were making 10k pa out there, you’d live like a king, but the problem is you’d have to have a hard heart not to be affected by all the shantys you’d drive past
[quote=“W.B. Yeats”]
If you were making 10k pa out there, you’d live like a king, but the problem is you’d have to have a hard heart not to be affected by all the shantys you’d drive past
WBY[/quote]
I imagine hearing about one or two car-jackings would prevent you from feeling too sorry for them.
The South African embassy is on the Vico Road in Dalkey. I jog past it most evenings. Bizarre to contrast the opulence of that building to what was on the screen last night.
You can bet these lads aren’t providing their security anyway: http://www.badboyzsecurity.co.za/
the ANC has left these people and these areas behind, the inner city no go areas of joburg were affluent areas in the 80’s, i believe a trendy student spot. Overtaken by immigrants now.
To deal with the mess they moved the CBD to the suburbs and left the mess behind them, it has gotten worse by the look of it, downtown joburg is practically a township now.
Now you cannot drive through it for fear of being carjacked or killed and this will never change.
The cops can be bribed for a fiver so they are useless, a fuckup of a country.
I know the place quite well and would say apart from the 2 stadiums in joburg it will be quite safe to visit for the WC, id say it will be a good experience for a few weeks, the only thing id be wary about would be transport
I was in Durban a few years back. Some country in fairness. I’ve travelled a fair bit in my time but I was shocked by my SA experience. First of all, for some reason I thought that there would be a good mix of skin colour there. There isn’t! I just couldn’t get over the amount of blacks in one place! And I know its Africa and all but I just thought there’d be more whites. Then there is the poverty! These are one poor people.
The other thing is how run down the centre of the city was. I’d say it was a beautiful spot years ago but since the whites gave up the power the place is gone to pieces. You now have only the blacks getting the powerful jobs.
Then there is the danger of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The group I was with can take care of themselves but two of the guys had to go into a bank in the city centre. To get in was worse than an airport for all the checks. One guy went in while the 2nd guy had to wait outside (he had no business to do so they wouldn’t let him in. He said he was out on the street alone in broad daylight and it was one of the most frightening experiences he ever had. Was delighted to get the fook out of there and back to the hotel area of the city where you’re relatively safe. Going out at night is a big no-no and you get taxi’s everywhere. Then there is the state of the cars they use as taxi’s!! Christ on a bike, if ever you wondered where all the old Toyota Carina’s of the world went to, look to South Africa!
In saying that, it is one beautiful country and I’d love to go back. The stadium in Durban is out a bit from the city centre and close enough to where all the hotels are so that would be a good place to be based if Ireland qualified. Plus you’re backing onto the Indian Ocean which is beautiful and warm to swim in, if not a bit rough waves wise.
If you seriously want to understand modern day South Africa and you don’t just want to hear the ‘things have gone to pot since the blacks took over’ argument you should watch this documentary by John Pilger. A real eye-opener. Six parts altogether.
[quote=“Locke”]
The other thing is how run down the centre of the city was. I’d say it was a beautiful spot years ago but since the whites gave up the power the place is gone to pieces. You now have only the blacks getting the powerful jobs. [/quote]
Good point. We really shouldn’t let the Blacks run anything. Besides maybe prostitution and drug dealing. I understand everyone drove BMW’s and lived in mansions before Mandela turned up.
A return of the British Empire is really the only way we can sort these animals out.
I knew a lad who played in goals for Spurs youths but when he has eventually cut from the squad at 19 or 20 he got hooked with a club in South Africa and played out there for 2 years. He said the standard of living (for him) was brilliant. Apartment and car paid for by the club, spending the day at the beach, ate in top quality restaurants every night.
That said, he often felt very unsafe over there and had a few very hairy moments. One being when a match went ahead on a sacred day over there. Some local tribe had objected to it being played and went mad, they stormed the stadium halfway during the game. He said they were locked in the dressing rooms for 3 hours until the army came to resuce them. He had enough of it after a couple of yearsand came away home. Sounded like a great experience though.
[quote=“Thrawneen”]Louis’ style is that naive questioning he does. It makes the guys open up and state what I know is often the obvious but sounds somewhat poignant and revealing when they say it themselves.
[/quote]
Just saw this post. Great point, most people don’t understand this the first time they watch one of his doumentaries and the thick ones don’t understand it after watching several. Unbelievably effective. Most interviewers try to show off how much they understand about the situation when they ask a question, he just always hits them with the most open ended stuff.
Good points there lads. One of the things you’d notice about Gay Byrne interviewing Padraig Flynn over on some other thread is how understated and jocular he is and he completely lets Flynn hang himself by letting him do all the talking. Pat Kenny, for example, would rush in and try to do all the accusations himself and end up with nothing more than a stock defensive answer.
Yer man Neel from TG4 employed a similar technique when interviewing the KKK.
Will watch those videos later. Really like Pilger - loads of his stuff on the web (and on tfktube I think).
Bullshit. The documentary was exploring the drug trade and steet crime. If you think that all the people of Philadelphia are cops or criminals as a result thats down to your own ignorance and maybe CSI:Miami is more in your mental range. Long winded questioning only makes the documentary about the documentary maker whereas Louis’ documentaries are about getting to the root of the people he talks to.
May as well start as you mean to go on I suppose.