Paul Ince wouldn’t let them down.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 935136, member: 1”]I guess that’s my point. You can dig out various quotes that make managers look unambitious or accepting of mediocrity. But I’d be wary of judging a manager by what the media* decides to print.
- I will exclude TFK from that, because we’ve always strived to be fair and balanced.[/QUOTE]
Moyes like Hodgson got an easy ride from the media because they were British
Lots of parallels between them - they never looked comfortable in the job or the expectations it carries.
Watch Hodgson during the World Cup when it all unravels as he allows the media pick his team
That was as good as we have played all season, and I have no qualms with the performance whatsoever. I only hope fair-minded people will see it the same way.
Roy Hodgson, 17 October 2010, Everton 2 Liverpool 0
d like to give Wolves credit, but I think we were a bit unlucky to lose the game, probably 0-0 would have been a reasonable result for us. But we didn’t do anything to deserve more than a 0-0.
Roy Hodgson, 29 December 2010
Liverpool 0 Wolves 1 (Wolves bottom)
I don’t think anyone can really say we did a lot wrong.
David Moyes, 9 February 2014
Manchester United 2 Fulham 2 (Fulham bottom)
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 935158, member: 2272”]Moyes like Hodgson got an easy ride from the media because they were British
Lots of parallels between them - they never looked comfortable in the job or the expectations it carries.
Watch Hodgson during the World Cup when it all unravels as he allows the media pick his team
That was as good as we have played all season, and I have no qualms with the performance whatsoever. I only hope fair-minded people will see it the same way.
Roy Hodgson, 17 October 2010, Everton 2 Liverpool 0
d like to give Wolves credit, but I think we were a bit unlucky to lose the game, probably 0-0 would have been a reasonable result for us. But we didn’t do anything to deserve more than a 0-0.
Roy Hodgson, 29 December 2010
Liverpool 0 Wolves 1 (Wolves bottom)
I don’t think anyone can really say we did a lot wrong.
David Moyes, 9 February 2014
Manchester United 2 Fulham 2 (Fulham bottom)[/QUOTE]
Just more quotes. I don’t see what’s wrong with the one against Wolves. It’s the result that’s more important than what he said.
Anyway I agree to a certain extent that they had similarities in how they were perceived. But Hodgson had plenty more experience in England and elsewhere and had achieved far more in his time than Moyes who has been mostly middling in his career so far. If England do fall apart in the World Cup, it won’t exacttly be the first time.
[QUOTE=“artfoley, post: 935145, member: 179”]Thats because they had a bigger stadium
Also their average attendances went up by 20% when they started winning the BPL[/QUOTE]
When the stadium capacity was duly increased.
United have always had the biggest following, even in the wilderness years when the odd decent cup run was often the only salvation.
That Liverpool fans and ABU’s generally are so gutted about Moyes departure tells you that the right decision has been made to ditch him. I was the same when Dalglish got the boot second time around.
[QUOTE=“dodgy-keeper, post: 935160, member: 1552”]When the stadium capacity was duly increased.
United have always had the biggest following, even in the wilderness years when the odd decent cup run was often the only salvation.
That Liverpool fans and ABU’s generally are so gutted about Moyes departure tells you that the right decision has been made to ditch him. I was the same when Dalglish got the boot second time around.[/QUOTE]
I’m not bothered either way, pal. My only concern is LFC, justice for the 96 and not buying The Sun.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 935159, member: 1”]Just more quotes. I don’t see what’s wrong with the one against Wolves. It’s the result that’s more important than what he said.
Anyway I agree to a certain extent that they had similarities in how they were perceived. But Hodgson had plenty more experience in England and elsewhere and had achieved far more in his time than Moyes who has been mostly middling in his career so far. If England do fall apart in the World Cup, it won’t exacttly be the first time.[/QUOTE]
The quotes point to the mentality where both of them had no idea how to turn things around and behaved/spoke as if they were at a mid table club which was happy scrapping for points here and there. They almost thought they could manage expectations by saying these were acceptable performances whereas a big club manager is not afraid to demand more and demand results. Poor managers hide behind performances and say things like “we passed the ball well” because they are subjective things.
Hodgson managed 16 teams - never lasted longer than two seasons at any of them as far as I know. Serial bluffer/spoofer manager who moved on and media went along with the revisionist nonsense that he was a success.
Moyes built teams at Everton to avoid losing - he was the king of the moral victory where a narrow loss to a Big Four team was a testament to his ability. He never showed anything at Everton that suggested he would bring something to United but nobody would have predicted how much of a disaster it turned out to be.
I’ll try to find out through Kuba.
[QUOTE=“artfoley, post: 935145, member: 179”]Thats because they had a bigger stadium
Also their average attendances went up by 20% when they started winning the BPL[/QUOTE]
Which coincided with them increasing the capacity of OT you tool.
And Limerick winning Sam, kid.
Wise move to give up on Liam for this year.
That’s an ongoing concern…
[QUOTE=“Mullach Ide, post: 935124, member: 141”]Both clubs were formed in 1878, Manchester United are the more famed and storied club and are a far bigger club than Everton.
United have always been a big club long before the advent of Sky TV[/QUOTE]
You’d want to brush up on your facts. Manchester United came into existence in 1902. They played in the top flight of the football league for the first time in 1906/07, the 19th season of league football. Everton, founder members of the football league had competed since the first season in 1888/89.
Bar a three year flurry between 1908-11 which yielded two league titles and an FA Cup, Manchester United’s tradition essentially starts with Matt Busby taking over in 1945. They even spent three season in the 1920’s and 6 seasons in the 1930’s in the 2nd division and were largely an irrelevance in English football until the late 1940’s.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 935163, member: 2272”]The quotes point to the mentality where both of them had no idea how to turn things around and behaved/spoke as if they were at a mid table club which was happy scrapping for points here and there. They almost thought they could manage expectations by saying these were acceptable performances whereas a big club manager is not afraid to demand more and demand results. Poor managers hide behind performances and say things like “we passed the ball well” because they are subjective things.
[/QUOTE]
Have a little look on google there - Ferguson wasn’t afraid of saying “we played well” or “we passed it well” when his team was beaten.
Ferguson to be involved in picking Moyes’ successor 
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 935163, member: 2272”]The quotes point to the mentality where both of them had no idea how to turn things around and behaved/spoke as if they were at a mid table club which was happy scrapping for points here and there. They almost thought they could manage expectations by saying these were acceptable performances whereas a big club manager is not afraid to demand more and demand results. Poor managers hide behind performances and say things like “we passed the ball well” because they are subjective things.
Hodgson managed 16 teams - never lasted longer than two seasons at any of them as far as I know. Serial bluffer/spoofer manager who moved on and media went along with the revisionist nonsense that he was a success.
Moyes built teams at Everton to avoid losing - he was the king of the moral victory where a narrow loss to a Big Four team was a testament to his ability. He never showed anything at Everton that suggested he would bring something to United but nobody would have predicted how much of a disaster it turned out to be.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think what has happened was at all unforeseeable. Certainly from very early in the season it was quite obvious to me that Manchester United would not finish in the top four, and it’s not as if nobody could see that there were six quality teams there that couldn’t overtake Manchester United if things started to go wrong for Moyes.
Moyes did an excellent job at Everton and this doesn’t change that. The requirements for managing a top team are different however. Moyes’ tactical style is not built for top teams and he simply did not have the force of personality needed for United and looked overawed by the job pretty much straight away. When that happens it can only end one way. Football management is like teaching - if the respect of the players is not earned straight away they’ll take liberties and won’t give a shit, and that respect can’t be earned later. If its not there at the start you’re fucked.
Excellent post, but I’m not sure about the last line @Sidney. In School of Rock, Jack Blacks character Dewey Finn didnt appear to have the respect of the kids early on in the film, but by God, through hard work and the gift of rock n roll he sure as heck had it by the end.
Might have a modest wager on Arsene Wenger at 250/1. He ticks a lot of the boxes if they’re looking for an experienced short-term fit - the guts of two decades worth of top-level EPL experience and European Cup experience of the same magnitude (in fact probably longer if you include Monaco). He’s out of contract in the summer as well. The counter-argument might be Wenger’s obsession with youth development in recent years means he’s possibly not the quick fix solution. Man U are all about instant success and haven’t put much store on youth development since the Class of 92.
[QUOTE=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 935177, member: 377”]You’d want to brush up on your facts. Manchester United came into existence in 1902. They played in the top flight of the football league for the first time in 1906/07, the 19th season of top flight league football. Everton, founder members of the football league had competed since the first season in 1888/89.
Bar a three year flurry between 1908-11 which yielded two league titles and an FA Cup, Manchester United’s tradition essentially starts with Matt Busby taking over in 1945. They even spent three season in the 1920’s and 6 seasons in the 1930’s in the 2nd division and were largely an irrelevance in English football until the late 1940’s.[/QUOTE]
not to get too semantic but Manchester United was formed when Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Football Club changed their name to such in 1902.
one could argue that the club was in exitsence since 1878.
[QUOTE=“count of monte cristo, post: 935201, member: 348”]not to get too semantic but Manchester United was formed when Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Football Club changed their name to such in 1902.
one could argue that the club was in exitsence since 1878.[/QUOTE]
As I’ve said, there was no Manchester United until 1902. Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Football Club was liquidated on foot of a creditors winding up petition in January 1902. Manchester United was formed in April 1902.
[QUOTE=“count of monte cristo, post: 935201, member: 348”]not to get too semantic but Manchester United was formed when Newton Heath Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Football Club changed their name to such in 1902.
one could argue that the club was in exitsence since 1878.[/QUOTE]
WTF would you know about it, sham?