only league winners qualified though which would have ruled out Ferguson’s two wins as they qualified without being champions on both occasions he won it
You would have to scratch off Istanbul 2005 and maybe hand the cup to United for the years they were knocked out by teams that didn’t win their leagues so.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 935286, member: 2272”]Is the consensus that Ferguson under achieved in Europe in terms of Champions League wins given the dominance of United from mid 90s to mid 2000s domestically?
Put another way will history judge Bob Paisley as the better manager given what he achieved in the time he achieved it and in the way he passed on a legacy of success to Joe Fagan and Kenny Dalglish.[/QUOTE]
Yes to both.
It depends what club you’re talking about and particularly what country they come from. For most it has become a lot harder because the economic disparity between the top clubs and the rest is far, far greater. If you’re one of the megabucks clubs like Manchester United, Chelsea, Manchester City, Barcelona, Royal Madrid, Bayern Munich or PSG it’s become a lot easier.
[QUOTE=“Mullach Ide, post: 935256, member: 141”]There was no liquidation, investors were found (including John Henry Davis)who sought control of the club as a result of their investment and the club subsequently changed it’s name.
Newton Heath/Manchester United were formed in 1878 and had their centenary celebrations in 1978.http://m2.miiduu.com/store2/38086/image/cache/data/201403/PIC_0035MIDUU-440x440.jpg[/QUOTE]
![http://m2.miiduu.com/store2/38086/image/cache/data/201403/PIC_0035MIDUU-440x440.jpg[/QUOTE]](http://m2.miiduu.com/store2/38086/image/cache/data/201403/PIC_0035MIDUU-440x440.jpg%5B/QUOTE%5D){kind=link}
False advertising is the name for that. Quite simply, there was no Manchester United until 1902. There’s no shame in the fact the team you support is one of the younger members of the football league. Chelsea weren’t found until 1905 if you’re that worked up about it. What is comical though is the need to reinvent history and make out that Man U have a history that could even compare with that of one of the founding fathers of the game in England or were even around 24 years before they were found.
Only one win in 1999. 2008 final has an asterix after it. Drawn final with Man U getting the cup in the lottery system. Again no shame in that. Plenty of clubs Bayern, Juventus, AC Milan, Liverpool (twice), Chelsea are credited with winning European Cup finals which were in fact drawn.
How are penalties a lottery system? they are not drawing lots to win the trophy
They are a test of skill, character and balls.
I hope in the interests of consistency you are discounting all goals scored by penalties during normal time in earlier rounds and in the knock out stages as a lottery.
Lads, this mid table club have had enough for one they. Leave the lads be ffs.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 935335, member: 2272”]How are penalties a lottery system? they are not drawing lots to win the trophy
They are a test of skill, character and balls.
I hope in the interests of consistency you are discounting all goals scored by penalties during normal time in earlier rounds and in the knock out stages as a lottery.[/QUOTE]
Its a team game 11 against 11 players. You are reducing it to a lottery set piece exercise involving 1 against 1. If it finishes level after 120 minutes, why not have a replay like Bayern Munich & Atletico Madrid did in 1974. If there is no replay, regardless of what result the lottery declares, its a draw. In cricket if you’re not ahead on runs after picking up 20 wickets in the 450 overs/5 day of regulated play, the game is declared a draw. In baseball/basketball they keep playing overtime periods involving the correct compliment of players until such time as a result is produced.
More details of the disdain Moyes was was held in leaking out now. According to The Times, the United groundstaff used the coded phrase “Are Everton in today” to find out if Moyes was in his office. 
Bastards, they were nobodies before that bloody Plane crash.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/premierleague/article4069309.ece
@Manuel Zelaya -
FRANK O’FARRELL WAS sacked after 18 months as Manchester United manager. Unable to deliver consistency to an ageing side, his second season in charge came to an end prematurely.
He had signed a five-year deal but, from the initial contract negotiations, something wasn’t quite right.
Matt Busby called O’Farrell in the summer of 1971 and offered him the job. A salary of £12,000 was put forward. O’Farrell accepted and met Busby again the following week, this time along with United chairman Louis Edwards. Crammed into the back of Edwards’ Rolls Royce, the terms of the contract were mentioned again. Busby confirmed the £12,000 salary. But Edwards interrupted. Busby, it seemed, was incorrect. The salary was £15,000. Busby, intent on duping O’Farrell from the outset, had been found out.
After his humiliating exit from the club, O’Farrell would spend nine months relentlessly battling with United and threatening legal action in an effort to get the compensation he was owed. Unemployed, he signed on the dole at Salford Labour Exchange. The manager of the place recognised O’Farrell and would serve him at the back door to save the embarrassment. Days before the case was due to be heard in court, United settled.
Tommy Docherty, the man responsible for the 1977 FA Cup success — the first big trophy United won for nine years, tells of the long-lasting effects of his spat with Alex Ferguson. Docherty asked United for two match tickets for his daughter’s 21st birthday. United obliged and included an invoice for £44.
Many have criticised how Manchester United have handled the removal of David Moyes as manager. Many have questioned why the whole process has been so classless and lacking in both grace and style. Many have been damning in their criticism. Many have cried that this isn’t ‘the United way’.
‘The United way’ has got them in this sorry mess. Arrogant to the point of stupid. The naivety of appointing a calm, thoughtful, sensitive football soul to a long-term deal in the hope that he could, somehow, become a mini-Ferguson, was surely dreamed up by a deluded bunch, giddy on their own sense of self-importance. The painting of how Moyes and Ferguson were some sort of kindred spirits, with similar working-class backgrounds, missed the bigger point.
United didn’t want Jose Mourinho because he was a loose cannon, a sometimes terse and difficult character who stubbornly blamed others, refused to take responsibility for his own errors and grew increasingly paranoid about the media. Sound familiar? The thinking behind the Moyes appointment appeared to be: ‘we do things differently here’. That strategy failed to appreciate the freak-like tenure of Ferguson and the unceremonious dictatorship he oversaw. Under Ferguson, United was a different proposition. As soon as he left, the club became like any other.
On the first day of United training under David Moyes, the players went on a long-distance run. Rio Ferdinand roared, “What are we now? Manchester fucking Harriers?” On the first day of training, David Moyes had a clear idea of what ‘the United way’ was. Something respectful, graceful, stylish? No. Instead, it was the same atmosphere that exists at every club when a new, unproven manager arrives: a toxic mix of arrogance, reluctance and petulance. Throw in some suspicion and posturing and it’s the perfect cocktail for chaos.
Of course, there’s a steady tide of United supporters who will use the Moyes sacking as an opportunity to criticise the Glazers (‘the United way’) but the owners have acted swiftly and acknowledged the misguided strategy of appointing Moyes in the first place. They were sold on an idea of United being different from the rest, on having the ability to stand out from the crowd without Ferguson. It was folly. It was fantasy.
It might be tough for some to stomach – United as just another club. But, all they have right now is history. An illustrious history, certainly, but in between two long-serving managerial stalwarts, there’s been a mass of controversy, fall-outs and plenty of failure. From here on, it’s not about re-creating the past – it’s about securing a successful future. The strategies deployed to do that are irrelevant. United were stubborn enough to believe they could do things differently. They thought they could suffer through an embarrassment of poor results and, more importantly, a litany of abject performances, all because of the ‘the United way’. It’s not always the right way.
United is a club proudly built on history and tradition. It’s a club with foreign owners. It’s a club that desperately needs to off-load players and sign new ones. It’s a club that has attained incredible success. It’s a club struggling under the weight of an icon’s departure. It’s a club that’s failing. It’s a club that’s just sacked a manager. It’s a club that will eventually appoint a new one.
Right now, it’s just another club.
[QUOTE=“Jimmy Mc Nulty, post: 935353, member: 1168”]More details of the disdain Moyes was was held in leaking out now. According to The Times, the United groundstaff used the coded phrase “Are Everton in today” to find out if Moyes was in his office. Bastards, they were nobodies before that bloody Plane crash.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/premierleague/article4069309.ece[/QUOTE]
They were too big for their boots and English football when they opted out of competing in the FA Cup in 2000. Everton is as big as club as there is in England both now and in its illustrious 136 year history. To disparage an institution of the English game in those terms is just disgusting. No experience garnered in the English game is seemingly sufficient to earn the honour of managing this New York Stock Exchange quoted plc.
Horseshit. You had to win your league in the old days.
This story is of such national importance, the national broadcaster has dispatched soccer correspondent Tony O’Donoghue to Manchester. Tony currently outside of Old Trafford informing the viewers that this is Manchester United’s worst season since 1982. Don’t know where Tony plucked 1982 out of, they finished 3rd in the league that season.
[QUOTE=“farmerinthecity, post: 935244, member: 24”]
The transfer of Fellaini was just incredibly poor management. Having to spend 27 million on him when they could have got him for 4 million less earlier in the window is just shocking. Most people would be sacked for that. [/QUOTE]
Agreed - but that should be a CEO or director of football or whoever is in charge of financing transfers that gets sacked. If Moyes identified Fellaini as a target and they were too slow and cumbersome and indecisive in concluding the deal then that Woodward lad or whoever should have been fired over it.
@Manuel Zelaya is fuming.
Liverpool storming to the league title and United are still the big story.
Hated, adored but never ignored. 
[QUOTE=“dodgy-keeper, post: 935368, member: 1552”]@Manuel Zelaya is fuming.
Liverpool storming to the league title and United are still the big story.
Hated, adored but never ignored. [/QUOTE]
Manny is not a Liverpool fan, pal.