Happy new year 
Losing bp for the stags. Iâll take that 
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With a B side at that .
Christ, Billy Holland is still tearing the arse out of it
Is that the young Belfast fella? Glad to see him going well, he was caught up in the media circus a couple of years back due to family connections but hasnât let it set him back.
At the moment, hurling is sexy and everyone wants to play itâ - How Limerickâs success is damaging Munster rugby
With seven Limerick-born players, including just one forward, currently part of Munsterâs 43-man squad, and only one Treaty County representative in the provinceâs Academy, the rise of John Kielyâs All-Ireland winning hurlers is making it increasingly difficult for rugby to attract young talents
Munster players (l-r) Craig Casey, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly and Tadhg Beirne following defeat by Leinster in the Guinness PRO14 semi-final at the Aviva Stadium last September. Photo: Ramsey Cardy/Sportsfile
[
Cian Tracey
January 16 2021 02:30 AM
](https://m.independent.ie/opinion/independent-journalists/cian-tracey/)
AM
Jubilant street celebrations on what should have been a special occasion for the city were instead replaced by an emptiness, but for a couple of hours at least, Limerickâs gloomy night sky was lit up by the Thomond Park and Gaelic Grounds floodlights, which were shining as the minor squad trained ahead of yet another Munster final success.
From Mick Mackey to Paul OâConnell, Limerick has always had a deep passion for sport, but question marks linger over hurling and rugbyâs ability to thrive at the same time.
Inside the Munster dressing-room, Conor Murray watched Limerickâs win over Waterford unfold until the last possible moment, before he switched off his phone and focused fully on matters at hand. Growing up in Patrickswell, Murray was an exception to the rule in that he followed the oval ball, despite playing underage hurling for his club and football for Limerick.
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Irelandâs Conor Murray demonstrates some hurling skills. Photo: Stephen McCarthy / Sportsfile
Up the road in Dublin that night on December 13, three of his Patrickswell club-mates, Cian Lynch, Aaron Gillane and Diarmaid Byrnes, picked up their second senior All-Ireland medal - what Murray would give for a taste of that kind of success with Munster now.
Hurlingâs rise in Limerick has coincided with Munsterâs dip, and that the provinceâs trophy-less spell will stretch to at least 10 years before they have a chance to bring it to an end has not happened by accident, just as the success of John Kielyâs men hasnât occurred overnight either.
âLimerick was the home of Munster rugby for me growing up,â former Limerick hurler Shane Dowling said, following the recent All-Ireland win. "The year (2006) they won the Heineken Cup, how many thousands of people were on OâConnell Street? Thatâs what I grew up watching.
âWhat Limerick GAA have done in the last 10 years, donât think it came with the success of the last three years, with the underage Academies - any 12-, 13-, 14-year old wants to get into that set-up knowing how good it is. Hurling is now number one in Limerick.â
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Conor Murray (4th from right, back row) lining up for Limerick in their Primary Game clash against Kerry in 2002
Hurling has exploded in Limerick and the huge increase in the participation rate is estimated to stand at approximately 80pc since 2005.
It has taken time for the results of the hard work to pay off, but the countless hours spent implementing proper underage systems has come to fruition to such an extent that when you look at the supreme athletic profile of the current Limerick team, one wonders if rugby is doing enough to tap into the GAA heartlands of the county. These things tend to work in cycles because when Munster were winning Heineken Cups in 2006 and 2008, the hurlers had to wait until 2018 to claim their first All-Ireland since 1973.
In the lead-up to Limerick ending their 45-year famine, Keith Earls spent what proved to be valuable time with the squad, as he spoke about how he dealt with nerves on the big occasion.
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GearĂłid Hegarty of Limerick celebrates following the All-Ireland SHC Final victory over Waterford at Croke Park last month. Photo: Ramsey Cardy/Sportsfile
That Earls and Murray were the only Limerick players in the Munster team that night the hurlers won their second All-Ireland in three years highlighted a growing problem within the province.
On that same day, the Irish Independent broke the news that Peter Malone had left as Munsterâs Academy manager - a role the Limerick man had held since January 2012.
Paddy Kelly is currently the only one of 15 full Academy players from Limerick, which is concerning considering it is the second biggest city in the province, and one that has always produced high-quality young talents.
In the senior squad, seven of the 43 players were born in Limerick, as Murray and Earls are joined by Craig Casey, Dan Goggin, Calvin Nash, Neil Cronin, and Dave Kilcoyne, who is the only Munster forward from the Treaty County. Itâs a far cry from Munsterâs proud history of having Limerick men at the heart of their pack. Had Kilcoyne been fit for the win over Harlequins, he would have increased the cityâs representation to three, while Casey was on the bench
It should, of course, be pointed out that Limerickâs decline in numbers, has coincided with other untapped areas of the province such as West Cork and Waterford seeing a welcome increase of exciting young players breaking through. Marrying them all together remains the challenge.
The slow death of the AIL has been disastrous for rugby in Limerick, and that has had a knock-on effect throughout the province. Considering how, by and large, Limerick schools have struggled in the Senior Cup lately, coupled with how attractive hurling has become for youngsters, itâs not difficult to see why this has become such an issue.
âI live in Annacotty. We are surrounded by Monaleen GAA and I played with Na Piarsaigh as a young fella, so Iâd have a sense of what the GAA clubs are doing and they are very well-structured,â says Young Munster head coach GearĂłid Prendergast.
"The underage systems seem to be really good and obviously the success of the inter-county team over the last few years has definitely drawn the attention of a particular cohort of the age group from 16-20. Hurling has come to the fore and my sense is that a lot more of the school-leaving age group are now veering more towards hurling rather than rugby.
âGAA has started to become much more prominent in schools that would traditionally have been rugby schools.â
The main school in question is Ardscoil RĂs, which has produced international players such as OâConnell, Kilcoyne and SeĂĄn Cronin, but their hurling production line of late has been equally as impressive.
Having won five Harty Cups from 2010 to 2018, Ardscoil has been at the heart of Limerickâs golden generation. Captain Declan Hannon is a role model for every young hurler, while the likes of Cian Lynch, Aaron Gillane and the Casey brothers, Mike and Peter, also attended the school.
Ardscoilâs current Senior Cup coach, Robbie Bourke, has experienced the rise in popularity in hurling, and he is now central to the quest to ensure that rugby doesnât pay the price.
Shifted
âI was in the school myself from 2010 to 2013, when there was a big change in terms of hurling,â Bourke explains. "Ardscoil wasnât considered a rugby school at the time. We played rugby, but the hurlers were in the sun. When they won the Harty Cup in 2010, the whole thing shifted with that success.
"Our rugby playing numbers have actually sustained fairly well, considering the huge focus the school has on hurling. But there isnât that favouritism that you might suspect.
"To my knowledge, hurling is backed from the county board, so there is a lot more funding in place because they see how many good hurlers come out of the school. You would expect a lot of bitterness considering the amount of success the hurlers have had, but there is none of that from a rugby point of view.
"The development of hurlers has been phenomenal, but we havenât had that same success with rugby recently, apart from Craig (Casey). Craig is a different breed, he loves Ardscoil. He consistently gives back to the school and for young lads to be able to talk to him takes away the stigma of the professional player. It shows them that itâs possible.
âWhen I was in the school, Paul OâConnell was the stuff of legend - you would never really see him around. Craig has the same aura, but heâs a regular guy who loves helping out.â
That accessibility factor is something which has been highlighted by those who are working at the coalface of Limerick rugbyâs attempts not to fall even further behind hurling.
âYoung lads are definitely swayed by success,â Prendergast, whose brother Mike is coaching Racing 92, maintains.
"It leaves an impression on any of us in any walk of life, but particularly for a young lad of 16 or 17 - success is a big factor and the Limerick hurlers have been to the fore on that.
"They are also able to see someone like Cian Lynch walking down the street. They are local lads who are accessible. Could you say the same about Munster rugby? Probably less so now because we donât have the same amount of Limerick players in the Academy.
âThat localised connection needs to be rejuvenated by players coming into the system because once these lads can see a young Dave Kilcoyne, that gives them a sense of hope and it makes them believe they can be that guy too.â
Garryowen coach John Staunton, who has spent over 10 years working in the schools game, shares Prendergastâs concerns.
âYoung kids in Crecora and Croom are looking at Cian Lynch. Heâs in the next parish, they want to be Cian Lynch,â says Staunton, whose younger brother Jeremy played for Munster and Ireland. "You canât say the same thing is happening in Munster rugby. We need more engagement with them.
"The hurlers are winning at the moment, but they are also fully accessible to everyone and they are constantly engaged with their cubs.
"A GAA supporter will follow their club and Limerick as well, but thatâs not happening in rugby because too many people just go Thomond Park and leave club and schools rugby to the side.
âClub rugby needs to become community rugby. The days of the blazers are long gone. You need to build a club that is all about the people.â
When the All-Ireland League was at its peak in the 1990s and early 2000s, rugby in Limerick was booming, but speak to anyone in the city now, and they will tell you that the AILâs decline is at the heart of the problem.
With many people forced to leave the city to find work, the AIL clubs are finding it harder to compete with their Dublin and Cork rivals, much like Limerickâs public schools are.
The feeling behind the scenes is that Limerick is trying to operate a Dublin schools rugby-style system without having the resources, finances or playing numbers to properly implement it.
Private fee-paying schools have dominated the Senior Cup over the last decade, while Shannon were the last Limerick team to win the AIL back in 2009. With many schools insisting that players do not play for their clubs while they are involved in Cup competitions, there is a huge ripple effect.
âI would say schools rugby is the main area you would see any kind of drop-off, and that obviously feeds into the clubs,â says Shannon head coach Tadhg Bennett, who previously played football for Limerick.
"One particular Claughaun lad played for Ardscoil last year at out-half, but his whole focus this year was to make the Limerick U-20s hurling team. Thatâs meant he hasnât been back training with us because he more or less told the hurling coach that he was going to give the 20s a crack.
"The major problem in Limerick is playing numbers, with three big teams. We lost two or three lads this year to graduate programmes in Dublin. We had jobs for them lined up in Limerick, but boys are coming back to us saying the graduate programmes in Dublin are much better. Itâs hard for Limerick clubs to compete with that.
"Even back in my own day, when I was in Munchinâs, we won two Senior Cups and two years after I left they won another Cup. Munchinâs had the likes of Keith Earls and Donnacha Ryan, but those kind of players donât seem to be coming through the Limerick schools anymore.
"The two Cork teams (PBC and CBC) are dominating nowadays and thereâs your grassroots. Thatâs where the problem is coming from. Itâs all about success, really, and unless Munster start breeding success again, is that going to feed down into the younger generation?
âLimerick won another All-Ireland final and every kid wants to be part of that kind of success. But I would always tell a young fella to play GAA for as long as he can because a lot of the skills are the same. There are other coaches who will be like, âWhy the f**k are you going playing that other sport?ââ
Ensuring that every sport in the city, particularly hurling and rugby, are able to work in tandem is crucial, according to former Munster scrum-half Cathal Sheridan, who has linked up with the Cork hurlers as sport and performance coach, while he is also working as UL Bohemiansâ director of rugby, and as mental skills coach with the Munster Academy.
âI would never have viewed it as hurling taking players away from rugby,â Sheridan insists. "We have loads of guys on our team who play football and hurling, and the last thing I would ever want to do when they were in championship and we were just starting to train, was to say, âActually no, this is your main sport now, stop with all of that other stuff.â
"I look at this Limerick team and they are beasts. They are proper athletes. You would only love for them to be on your rugby team. The work that has been done in Limerick hurling with the underage systems is fantastic. If you go out to the UL 4G, where we (Bohs) play our home games, you can see the U-13s and U-14s training away, and itâs a military precision operation.
Buzz
"The buzz is brilliant, so if you were a young fella, of course you would want to be a part of that. Then you have the glory that goes with hurling at the moment and thatâs not to be ignored.
"Are we producing enough players from Limerick into the Munster set-up, or are they not coming through because Limerick hurling is enjoying such success and high standards?
âIf youâre a 16-year-old and you are brilliant at rugby and hurling, right now, you might end up going down the hurling route.â
For Darragh Frawley, who is coaching Castletroy Collegeâs Senior Cup team, his aim is to make rugby as attractive as possible in a school that has produced Hurler of the Year in-waiting GearĂłid Hegarty, as well as the Morrissey brothers, Tom and Dan.
âI didnât think Castletroy has been overly-impacted by hurling,â Frawley says. "Hurling is more prominent in Limerick than it has ever been. Weâve had GearĂłid Hegarty, Tom Morrissey, Dan Morrissey and a couple of others who played for Limerick, but it has by no means led to lads bursting at the seams to play hurling in Castletroy.
"But if you were to ask me; do I think hurling can overtake rugby within the school in the next decade? Absolutely, 100pc. And rightly so because people will follow the success. If anything, a wedge has been driven between clubs and schools. You compare that to hurling, which has created a big community base. The tribalism and the community ethos around that is massive.
âUntil there comes a time when Munster give back to the people who have given to them, they are in real trouble.â
That âwedgeâ Frawley refers to is something which deeply frustrates Staunton, who also sees first-hand the good work that is being done in the GAA in his role as an underage coach with Monaleen.
âA lot of people in Limerick donât want to acknowledge the war that is going on between the clubs and schools down here,â Staunton says.
"What needs to happen is the clubs and the schools have to start working together. Schools rugby in Limerick is on the floor, bar an odd year that papers over the cracks. Look at the results in Cup competitions last year, we are just not at the level of the rest. The GAA have a better chance of keeping lads at the moment because Limerick have been successful and thatâs brilliant to see.
"I think between U-18½ youths and U-19 schools rugby, over a 1,000 young kids are playing that age group, but the following year, take it half of them are underage, thereâs less than 200 playing.
"It comes from the very top, from (IRFU performance director) David Nucifora the whole way down. The Union really needs to take responsibility and realise that there are more teams in Ireland than just the national team and the four provinces.
âTo be brutally honest, if the Union started showing real interest in the club game at grassroots and the All-Ireland League, then club rugby becomes sexy again and people will want to play it. At the moment, hurling is sexy and everyone wants to play it.â
Prendergast and Bourke echo Stauntonâs sentiments.
âLimerick and Irish rugby need to do more,â Prendergast, last yearâs Ireland Clubs head coach, says. âMore needs to be done around the AIL, particularly from a PR perspective - getting it on that right stage because there is definitely talent in Limerick, I have no doubt about that.â
Dream
Bourke agrees, adding: "Everyone likes winning. When you look at where Munster are at the moment, itâs not exactly the dream to follow.
"A lot of lads Iâve had in Ardscoil would have had the chance to play an inter-pro with Munster, and they would have picked that over the county minors, but that is starting to change with the hurlersâ success. Itâs the same in Dublin, everyone wants to be a Dub.
"Weâre stuck in our ways a little bit, especially at AIL level, and we havenât really caught up to the modern game. That filters down to the young lads, so weâre not getting the caps because weâre not playing good enough rugby.
âThatâs something Limerick needs to do as a whole. Itâs a problem that must be addressed instead of everyone being bitter and competitive with each other.â
Itâs clear that rugby in Limerick will be playing catch-up for some time yet, and as the hurlers continue on their upward trajectory, more work needs to be done across the board in order to ensure that Munster get the most out of the talent at their disposal.
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That was a very hard piece to copy on the phone and I lost a picture of the Dow in the process.
Apologies
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The walls are crashing in
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He wouldnât fit on the page ?
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Literally
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Shane is a lovely chap
Cc my reply on the Limerick GAA forum. Its more applicable here
Also Gerry Thorney struck the same point in IT today too. Donns tweet sums up how ridiculous the IRFUs attitude is to the club game
Turn the AIL into the Pig n Porter
Basically 
Iâve never had a non contact training session that didnât end up in full contact or a punch up. Tag rugby is a sly way to sexually harrass women
âLimerick was the home of Munster rugby for me growing up,â former Limerick hurler Shane Dowling said, following the recent All-Ireland win. "The year (2006) they won the Heineken Cup, how many thousands of people were on OâConnell Street? Thatâs what I grew up watching.
âWhat Limerick GAA have done in the last 10 years, donât think it came with the success of the last three years, with the underage Academies - any 12-, 13-, 14-year old wants to get into that set-up knowing how good it is. Hurling is now number one in Limerick.â
Ah lovely, The Dow sowed it into them good and proper there.
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Grab em by the pussy?
I see there is a player released from the Munster academy who played hurling 5 or 6 years ago being called straight into the tipp squad for next year
The Limerick way has spooked a lot of counties Iâd say
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How needy
regarding the limerick lads on the munster team which is a subject in the article
was the munster team ever really stocked up with Limerick men?
2008 heineken cup win you had OâConnell, Flannery, Hayes , wallace in the 15 and earls an unused sub ( 5 out of 22)
Flannery and Wallace werent Limerick natives, I reckon Munster have had around 2 or 3 Limerick lads starting on their teams generally from 2008 onwards.
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