+1
The problem is not with teams employing an ultra defensive system, itâs with teams doing it badly.
The game has become overrun with athletes and lads who have low levels of footballing ability. Defensive systems require patience and ability to stretch the play in order to be beaten which comes down to more natural skills of the games. Trying to play a running hand pass game against a well organised and very defensive system wonât work.
It was definitely the worst match Iâve ever been at.
There were a few circumstances apart from Derryâs tactics which added up to the dirge the match turned into.
i) The weather was shit. Really shit.
ii) The atmosphere was shit which filters through to the players.
iii) Dublin werenât that bothered about the match in the first place.
Gaelic football is dividing into two camps. At the top end of the game recently weâve seen some matches which have been some of the best ever (Kerry v Mayo 2014 draw and replay, Donegal v Dublin 2014) and one which was the best ever (Dublin v Kerry 2013). On the other hand the Kerry-Donegal final was one of the worst ever.
Below that weâre seeing some incredible dirges because of the tactics. There really isnât any way to get around 14 men behind the ball except bloody minded persistence. Itâs all about attitude but if most teams play like Derry did, God help us. The only thing is that teams are still going to lose playing this way and may roll back a bit when they see that. Donegal did. Youâd imagine Brian McIver would be a smart enough coach to do the same. But there a lot of managers out there who are thick and wonât.
Games I have watched recently - Galway v Cavan, Cork v Mayo, Dublin v Tyrone - most of the players cannot kick the ball with any accuracy/over the bar from any distance
some of the kicking was Junior B standard - if players can kick long range points or accurate long range passes then it defeats blanket defence but itâs a skill that has been let go, it seems
blanket defence thing is going on for over 10 years now. In the 80s and 90s people were giving out about the lost art of high fielding - the game evolves and tactics evolve and it moves on
What has happened in last year or two is not so much the blanket defence but the fact that teams know that the blanket defence is a counter attacking system so teams are not being pulled forward and are leaving players back to cover counter attacks so you do end up with a bit of a stalemate
Fixed that for you Sid
Well Dublin and Mayo are arguably the two most attack minded teams of the last couple of years and both got openly mocked as being naive when suffering the consequences of that approach. As a result, do you think Jim Gavin gives a fuck about the same critics whining about Dublin now?
Itâs all unbelievably overblown.
Burns worries me though, he has a lot of clout with the powers that be (he is one really).
I can never understand people who set up task forces or the like and put themselves or their mates on it. If there is something wrong with an organization within you are in power then you are hardly the best placed to objectively critically assess.
A limit on passes is utterly fucking stupid.
[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 1116666, member: 273â]
A limit on passes is utterly fucking stupid.[/QUOTE]
I think itâs a good idea in theory but would be impossible to officiate. It worked well in the international rules series along with kickouts beyond the 45.
Just limit the amount of players allowed inside the forty, six on six maybe?
All good in theory but I imagine it would be very hard to implement. GAA referees at the moment are utterly incompetent at implementing the rules never mind giving them responsibilities and more complex rules. Could you imagine Marty Duffy trying to officiate games with extra responsibilities.
Are there any other sports that tinker with and change rules pretty much constantly like GAA does
Like the Irish Government - why enforce current laws when you can just make more new laws
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 1116709, member: 2272â]Are there any other sports that tinker with and change rules pretty much constantly like GAA does
Like the Irish Government - why enforce current laws when you can just make more new laws[/QUOTE]
Thereâs nothing wrong with that if it improves the game. What are the major changes in GAA that have taken place (that were kept on not just trialed) recently?
Donegal 4-09 Monaghan 1-05 FT
Tyrone 2-10 Armagh 1-07 50m
Seems always changing from a quick google these are 3 years of changes
https://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/rules/Summary_of_Playing_Rule_changes_2010.pdf
http://fermanagh.gaa.ie/square-ball-rule-from-monday-14th-may/
Only a fool would whine about Gavin in relation to the Derry and Tyrone matches in this yearâs league, given that it was the oppositionâs tactical approach which was 100% to blame for those matches being shit, the same as Donegalâs tactical approach was 100% to blame for the 2011 semi-final being shit.
In relation to last year, a lot of Gaelic football managers, even some of the supposed best in the game, donât appear to be able to vary their approach very much from game to game depending on the opposition and are also particularly poor at in-game tactical switches. Jim Gavin and James Horan have been blatantly culpable of this, Horan on several occasions. In my view Dublin and Mayo were the two best teams last year but failed to make simple tactical adjustments in their semi-finals when on top. Eamonn Fitzmaurice is an exception on both counts although his tactical approach to last yearâs All-Ireland final was given far too much credit as Kerry won that through luck more than anything.
The traditional paucity of tactical thought in Gaelic football is probably function of i) the fact that it is only played in one country, unlike association football where new tactical innovations can come from anywhere in the world and ii) there being no offside rule. Once somebody comes up with something that works others just copy it without really knowing what theyâre doing.
[QUOTE=âSidney, post: 1116743, member: 183â]Only a fool would whine about Gavin in relation to the Derry and Tyrone matches in this yearâs league, given that it was the oppositionâs tactical approach which was 100% to blame for those matches being shit, the same as Donegalâs tactical approach was 100% to blame for the 2011 semi-final being shit.
In relation to last year, a lot of Gaelic football managers, even some of the supposed best in the game, donât appear to be able to vary their approach very much from game to game depending on the opposition and are also particularly poor at in-game tactical switches. Jim Gavin and James Horan have been blatantly culpable of this, Horan on several occasions. In my view Dublin and Mayo were the two best teams last year but failed to make simple tactical adjustments in their semi-finals when on top. Eamonn Fitzmaurice is an exception on both counts although his tactical approach to last yearâs All-Ireland final was given far too much credit as Kerry won that through luck more than anything.
The traditional paucity of tactical thought in Gaelic football is probably function of i) the fact that it is only played in one country, unlike association football where new tactical innovations can come from anywhere in the world and ii) there being no offside rule. Once somebody comes up with something that works others just copy it without really knowing what theyâre doing.[/QUOTE]
I donât like the way Dublin get portrayed as the saviours of football. For me, I donât find anything special about the way they play, no doubt itâs very attacking, but I donât think the style they play is that attractive. Itâs about swarming teams in attack, they rarely kick pass the ball, itâs all about athleticism and hand passing the ball and support play, no doubt theyâve got some fantastic players but I donât think their style of football is all that endearing.
Most radical - and probably the best thing - they can do is make it 13 a side.
Eh Kerry are the saviours of football. Always have, always will be. Now fall in.
if you read about football tactics, basketball, Aussie Rules or hockey they all say that the most important part of a game is the transition phase when attack breaks down, other team gains possession and you now have transition attack to defence, defence to attack - teams have probably less than 5 seconds to set up and the best teams do it quickly and capitalise on other team not being set up as efficiently
I read an interview with a Liverpool coach whose job was analysis of opponents - Opposition Analyst ! - he said that if you go to a game and want to understand tactics or technical things to focus on that transition phase and watch how teams adjust shape and position of players as they lose or gain possession - he said in football lots of work goes into that so players know where to be
best teams in any âinvasionâ game are the ones who transition the best and most quickly so Donegal success was not just built on defence but a quick transition to attack
that analysis gets lost in blanket defence - it is about how teams transition - the transition phase is how you beat defensive system and also the transition phase is what makes the better defensive system
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 1116715, member: 2272â]Seems always changing from a quick google these are 3 years of changes
https://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/rules/Summary_of_Playing_Rule_changes_2010.pdf
http://fermanagh.gaa.ie/square-ball-rule-from-monday-14th-may/
https://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/rules-and-regulations/[/QUOTE]
Interesting. At a glance, I donât see any changes there that have been bad for the games. A lot of clarifications/tweaks to existing rules and a couple that seem to have arisen from high profile incidents like the goalieâs puck out outside the square one.
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 1116825, member: 2272â]if you read about football tactics, basketball, Aussie Rules or hockey they all say that the most important part of a game is the transition phase when attack breaks down, other team gains possession and you now have transition attack to defence, defence to attack - teams have probably less than 5 seconds to set up and the best teams do it quickly and capitalise on other team not being set up as efficiently
I read an interview with a Liverpool coach whose job was analysis of opponents - Opposition Analyst ! - he said that if you go to a game and want to understand tactics or technical things to focus on that transition phase and watch how teams adjust shape and position of players as they lose or gain possession - he said in football lots of work goes into that so players know where to be
best teams in any âinvasionâ game are the ones who transition the best and most quickly so Donegal success was not just built on defence but a quick transition to attack
that analysis gets lost in blanket defence - it is about how teams transition - the transition phase is how you beat defensive system and also the transition phase is what makes the better defensive system[/QUOTE]
On the ball.