NZ, UK, US, Sweden, Poland & Cheese eating surrender Monkeys approaches to Covid-19

What does a “successful” vaccine mean? Covid is a respiratory disease, so unless you go around in a space suit for the rest of your life you cannot avoid exposure to the virus, and the virus will enter your body via the same mechanisms a cold or flu virus enters the body. No vaccine will prevent the virus entering your body. The best we can hope for is a vaccine that stimulates the same immune system response that is currently responsible for >99% of infected people recovering. Which is obviously a good thing as we get to whatever level of herd immunity is achievable quicker and hopefully safer.

The immune response from a vaccine to respiratory diseases (like flu) is typically weaker than the immune response developed naturally, so hope that the vaccine will somehow work better than our natural immunity is misguided. Flu vaccines for example are only about 50% effective or “successful”.

3 Likes

I’m not the one proposing a protect the vulnerable agenda. Surely you’d know where the vulnerabilities lie before advocating such a strategy

Ah would you get off the stage. You have followed this enough to know who the key at risk sections of society are at this point.

Just make your point and don’t be so obtuse. If you are going for the uknown long term side effects angle, then just say so.

who do you think is vulnerable? I’ve asked you a couple of times now.

The people who the WHO and all health authorities including the HSE said are at risk.

The list of people in very high risk groups include people who:

  • are over 70 years of age - even if you’re fit and well
  • have had an organ transplant
  • are undergoing active chemotherapy for cancer
  • are having radical radiotherapy for lung cancer
  • have cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment
  • are having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer
  • are having other targeted cancer treatments which can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors
  • have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months, or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs
  • severe respiratory conditions including cystic fibrosis, Alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency, severe asthma, pulmonary fibrosis, lung fibrosis, interstitial lung disease and severe COPD
  • have a condition that means you have a very high risk of getting infections (such as SCID, homozygous sickle cell)
  • are taking medicine that makes you much more likely to get infections (such as high doses of steroids or immunosuppression therapies)
  • have a serious heart condition and you’re pregnant

What point are you trying to make here?

2 Likes

Vulnerable to serious disease and potential death? Those whose immune systems are compromised whether through existing illnesses or age, or both. There is the potential for a young healthy person to get serious disease and die, but that exists with countless other viral and bacterial diseases.

And I gave you an example of one and how more successful countries protected them. Just look at the death stats.

Why are you continuing to be evasive? Just make your point.

that’s a fairly large portion of a population to isolate and protect. Throw in the people that care for them, their families, their friends etc, that subset gets wider.

Are you advocating for that entire subset to live life with different conditions than everyone else?

Yes, on an advisory level.

People with certain conditions do this all the time by the way.

What point are you trying to make here?

what advisory level would that be? how would you advise someone who has a sick Mum or Dad to live their life while everyone else is going about their business? Or a sick child? Too bad. We’ll go on about our business and best of luck with that.

Yes, if we want to minimize their chances of getting Covid. The only other way to protect them is to develop herd immunity, so their chances of encountering the virus are minimized.

1 Like

until this much discussed herd immunity comes around how is that achievable? You guys seem to condone that the subset of people should be the only ones who’s lives are imposed on by restrictions. “Protect the vulnerable” seems soft speak for fuck the vulnerable under a bus and we go on about our lives

To avoid crowded settings, to make extra efforts to socialise with a distance and outside…

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here? The emerging evidence is that older people are generally shielding themselves and the new practices in nursing homes are avoiding more infections in the elderly. My own dad does a bit of work still and won’t be going into any meeting or office setting again, getting on public transport etc. He will take his chances with his grandchildren and socializing on occasion. It is imperfect but is his choice.

What is your proposal? Shut everything down because they we are all in the same boat?

Like Malarkey here, you aren’t really making a point, just criticizing others. To the point on a “successful vaccine”, what happens if we don’t have one?

2 Likes

“No vaccine will prevent the virus entering your body.”

And you were saying to me to eschew comment…

Look, you will now riff on ‘successful’. And then riff on something else, temperament as momentum. Fair enough. You use TFK as an intellectual gym. Fair enough, and off you go, but I do not need that gym.
.
I understand the way language works in its higher reaches. You do not.

I also respect science, way above ideology.

That’s a scurrilous accusation, especially as I have both family members who are vulnerable and in high risk environments.

There is no such category as “herd immunity”. Utter nonsense, on the science.

At least my post had the point of eliciting this moment of unhedged nonsense.

Didn’t you say that you were leaving this place because you were unable to interact with others without losing the plot and hurling abuse?

A few months on, you’re back with a vengeance.

That’s sounds positive but the minor issue of what kind of damage is being done to those infected long term is a major worry.

It’s a cunt that there is no way other than time itself to know the repercussions of infection.

2 Likes

So what exactly are you proposing that isn’t happening now with “protect the vulnerable”. Should whoever isn’t vulnerable suffer no burdens of the pandemic?

All evidence is anecdotal and challenged. There is very little consensus. The result of which is different strategies.

The major minds in the world can’t figure this but a couple of hacks on tfk know it all

1 Like