You may well be right about fennelly, he looked a smashing player at minor and u21 level.
Iād love to know how they decided to do what they did in the 2006 final and how far out they had the tactics planned. It looked very well rehearsed. Iām not sure that Limerick game showed Kilkenny all that much. I donāt remember Limerick doing anything that was out of the ordinary. There was lot of little pieces to the tactics in 2006. The splitting of defenders by forwards was almost an invitation to do short puck outs and it was exactly what Kilkenny wanted. The first puck out Cork had I could see Kilkenny had an exact gameplan in place. Henry organising the forwards on where to stand to split each defender exactly.
great coaching but unless you have players capable of being coached you are pissing against the wind.
in 2006, kk were much hungier than cork and that was very telling.
Cork were waiting in the long grass in 1990 though. In fact John Fitzgibbon did bloody well to hit that ball along the ground considering the length of it. Unbelieveable how they forgot to cut it before the biggest game of the year.
my favourite all time cork player. i got the chance to train and play with john in boston and he was far better than i had ever imagined.
fenway, do you see a difference in good coaching and tactics? telling players to hold a position and let opposition play a short ball is a tactic IMO. it might be coached well, but it is a tactic. maybe Iām misunderstanding you on all this, but I just got that you think Kilkenny are just well coached, and dont buy into tactics.
I disagree with Fenway completely.
i would differentiate between coaching and making switches in a match. a good coach has his team well organised and playing to their strengths. He works in training to eliminate weaknesses and to get players making on field decisions in the best interest of the team. he works on communication with players etc. Rotation of forwards, diagonal balls to forwards etc is just smart hurling in my opinion and would not categorise it as tactics, although i can see how some might.
hurling is a very simple game. as mentioned above, teams that go overboard on tactics i.e. playing a short passing game/employing a sweeper in front of full back line/playing a corner forward as a third midfielder etc are doing so to mainly address a weakness in their team that is stopping them from playing a conventional game.
i believe that kilkenny and tipp play a conventional enough game as they are equipped with the players to allow them to do so.
some guys are better at spotting switches that need to be made during a match and this is why these lads are often choosen as a selector.
you would not be the first
I agree with Fenway completely.
Good exchange of views though.
bandage,
if gaa was professional there would be more of a case to be made for tactics as players could devote far more time to this.
as it is, some players struggle to perform what to many observers seem the simplist task e.g. playing ball to better positioned colleague etc without trying to throw complicated formations/tactics into the mix.
I take your point somewhat but it sickened me when Colm Bonnar would say in March after our 4th or 5th league game that the shit performance was expected because āwe havenāt started any ball workā. Training sessions wasted running around the field and not even a consideration on devising, implementing and reinforcing a gameplan. They train enough times to do it but thereās teams that donāt train smartly. You mention marquee players and the team with better individuals should in theory win every game - I think the way to overcome a talent deficit is to formulate a tactical plan to bridge the gap.
bandage
i guarantee you that if wexford had the mahers*2 and noel mcgrath ye would be a serious contender overnight. wexford have no player of the ability of those three. these lads are not simply matchwinners but they make their teammates better players aswell. Wexford have plenty of the next level type of players but 15 of these players will win fuck all without the 3/4 marque type player.
no amount of tactics will allow the current wexford team beat kk or tipp when it matters. i feel that you are thinking to the victory ye had under conran a few years back. the point about that match was that it did not matter from a kk perspective as they were still in the championship regardless of the result.
Teams have little ball work done in march, wexford would not be unique in this. that time of year they are in the middle of strength and conditioning programs.
yeah but intercounty you will be obviously be playing with more talented and intelligent players who will make that space than you would at club levelā¦somebody was talking about winning dirty ball but if you have six forwards who play with their back to goal then you will struggle to create goal chances as they will all be running out the field to gain possessionā¦the perfect example was Dublin hurlersā¦they scored fcuk all goals before limerick match because all their inside forwards have to come so far from goal to gain possessionā¦their only option was a point from that rangeā¦thats why tipp are so goodā¦they have a great balance of ball winners, strength and most importantly players like corbett and callanan who are always running off the play waiting to come on to a pass and be in on goalā¦king henry has made a career out of hanging off the play waiting for it to be thrown out to himā¦
these 15 individuals need to buy into the team concept though i.e. its not my own performance that matters but the team performance. a lad who only cares about his own performance goes for the lotto shot, tries to hit a ball under pressure etc. the lad who buys into the team concept plays the diagonal ball, passes to a better place colleague. the kk and tipp teams have 15 players of a high standard with 3/4 marquee players and where the vast majority have bought into this team concept.
when i said that some lads are uncoachable, i am referring to the lad who cares about his own performance and not the team.
Still disagree. Iām not arguing that a better standard of players wonāt make your team stronger. You seem to be implying that better players guarantee a result for their team but I fundamentally disagree. Sure why bother competing in that case if the team with most talent is nailed on to win all the time. The favourite would win every sporting contest all the time in that case and sport is littered with upsets. You maximise your chances of turning the better side over by devising a smart plan that everyone buys in to.
Iām not ignorant enough to be unaware that teams are doing strength and conditioning programmes in March; however I believe they should also be working on devising playing systems and patterns of play. You need to cover all angles and a team is good condition isnāt much use if theyāre tactically deficient and have no discernible gameplan.
bandage,
the teams that have won all irelands have all had these 3/4 marque players. these are a lot more than ābetterā players. they are the type that comes around every generation. KK,Cork and Tipp have produced more of these due to our playing numbers.
if you look at galway hurling team, the only marque player they have is joe canning. if they had noel mcgrath and padraig maher or richie power and tommy walsh they would take a lot of beating.