Official All Ireland Senior Football Championship 2011 Thread

caoimhaoin · June 6, 2011, 5:01am

I have drink on me, but I think I can probably articulate it better this way. In all seriousness, here’s what I think was justified:

The formation of the Provisional IRA in 1969/70, due to the burning of Catholics (the conflict was sectarian as far as Unionists were concerned, not as far as Catholic/Nationalists were concerned, sectarianism has generally been a one way street in BOI) out of their homes and the total impotence of the Official IRA in defending their community. The Short Strand Riots of June 1970 brought this to a head. The “war” escalated in increments.

After internment in January 1971, the British Army and the British state effectively declared war against the Catholic/Nationalist community, reinforcing the already existing apartheid against the Catholic/Nationalist community.

Bloody Sunday heightened the conflict to a new level - after that there was no doubt that the British state was at war against the Catholic/Nationalist community. If you are under siege, you fight back. This is the same reason why, say Hamas or Hizbollah exist. Fighting back in these circumstances is entirely legitimate.

With the obvious collusion between the RUC/B Specials/UVF/UDA/UFF etc it became even more clear that the Catholic/Nationalist community was the victim of a sectarian war. It is entirely understandable that members of the “Crown Forces” became targets n these circumstances.

What is not acceptable is sectarian killings. Tragically this did occur and it is arguable that the PIRA/other groupings such as the INLA etc to some extent became a magnet for scumbags eg Seamus Twomey who was behind the Kingsmills massacre which was sectarian. There were other atrocities such as this eg Darkley and La Mon, Enniskillen etc. These are to be unreservedly condemned. In my view the PIRA campaign lost its focus and lost its way as the years went on. This does not make the aim of the struggle and the actions of the majority of the volunteers anything less than entirely justified. The actions of the hunger strikers remain unimpeachable.

Crown forces remained legitimate targets through the troubles as far as I’m concerned. While I have sympathy for the British soldiers who were caught up in the war, they represented an imperial colonial oppressing force, because let’s face it - that’s what the six counties is - an imperial colony. I have total sympathy for 18/19 year old lads who were involved in something they did no understand at all.

Context is key. The Catholic/Nationalist community for many years was brutalised and subject to an apartheid regime. Like anywhere in the world, they decided they’d had enough. I’d emphasise the words apartheid and brutalised again, just to ram the point home.

"John F. Kennedy had a good quote - “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” This is entrely applicable to the North of Ireland.

As for Omagh - if you think I supported something like that, well, I don’t know what to say mate. Even the bombers admit that they made a horrendous mistake. The whole thing was the most tragic mistake in the modern history of Ireland and it still disturbs me, as does Warrington etc, and I can still remember exactly what I was doing and where I was when I heard about it - I was out for a drive in Kinvara with my parents and my brother. I saw Mick Grimes who had his wife, daughter and grandchild killed at Omagh on Gay Byrne’s last Late Late Show and I’m not ashamed to say I cried uncontrollably. In 2002 we went to Omagh on the fourth anniversary of the bomb and visited the memorial garden and I’m not ashamed to say I cried then either.

By the way I didn’t agree at all with the blowing up of Ronan Kerr - I don’t believe he should have joined the PSNI but that’s a whole different debate.

I’d just prefer if you didn’t make what I see as a cheap joke about Omagh.

Outstanding.

good post. dont really get the whole, you made a joke about Omagh thing though. It wasnt a joke or meant to be funny.

Would agree certainly about the nationalist community having the right to defend itself and after Bloody Sunday, the British army declared war on a section of its citizens. You wont see me shedding tears about member of the British Army or any of their armed forces being killed. Killing RUC and prison officers possibly jusifiable. Loyalist paras fair game for sure aswell. Id actually agree with most of what you said but would argue that the aim of the PIRA went from initially defending its people to bombing the unionists into a 32 county state pretty quickly.

But 600+ civilians murdered is not defensible. There was far more pyschopaths that Twomey who dressed up in a green beret and killed people based on their religion or who didnt agree with their warped view of the world. There still is. Paedos were protected as were criminals and criminal activity all in the name of a 32 county republic. Some of those protectors are now sitting in Dail Eireann. I think that should be acknowledged particularly when people come on glorifying the RA. Not sure why you dont want a police force that represents their entire population of Norn Iron but its neither here nor there.

Not sure how this will find out who will win the football this year but a good post nonetheless.

This is a thread about Gaelic Football and you had a go at people, completely unprevoked about the North of Ireland, their beliefs and a terrible day in our history. Its beyond fucking stupid and in bad taste.

FUCK OFF AND DIE YOU UTTER CUNT. YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND SHIT ALL ABOUT YOUR OWN COUNTRY, ITS SHAMEFUL.

Sidney · June 6, 2011, 5:05am

good post. dont really get the whole, you made a joke about Omagh thing though. It wasnt a joke or meant to be funny.

Would agree certainly about the nationalist community having the right to defend itself and after Bloody Sunday, the British army declared war on a section of its citizens. You wont see me shedding tears about member of the British Army or any of their armed forces being killed. Killing RUC and prison officers possibly jusifiable. Loyalist paras fair game for sure aswell. Id actually agree with most of what you said but would argue that the aim of the PIRA went from initially defending its people to bombing the unionists into a 32 county state pretty quickly.

But 600+ civilians murdered is not defensible. There was far more pyschopaths that Twomey who dressed up in a green beret and killed people based on their religion or who didnt agree with their warped view of the world. There still is. Paedos were protected as were criminals and criminal activity all in the name of a 32 county republic. Some of those protectors are now sitting in Dail Eireann. I think that should be acknowledged particularly when people come on glorifying the RA. Not sure why you dont want a police force that represents their entire population of Norn Iron but its neither here nor there.

Not sure how this will find out who will win the football this year but a good post nonetheless.

Look mate, on the “joke” thing, I don’t know how it can be anymore obvious, Mr. Totti asked for a score update from the Tyrone-MOnaghan match which happened to be played in Omagh. You came in with a reply about “29 dead”, clearly in a sarcastic, smartarse way. In a way I’d defend your right to write something like that (under the Uaneen rule) because I’ve made jokes in poor taste in the past. But it doesn’t stop me saying that this partcular one was in very poor taste.

Any civilians killed is to be totally regretted, but it has to be remembered that the two main politcal parties in the FS cane out of guerilla groups - it certainly didn’t stop Fianna Fail appointing Frank Aiken as a minister.

I would prefer to see Nationalist-minded people not join the PSNI because it represents a normalising of British rule in what I see as a gerrymandered state but I don’t think they should be shot or blown up either. I don’t think any armed rising has any chance whatsoever of being successful now and therfore all efforts towards a united Ireland have to be peaceful. Unfortunately the British state has been successful in “killing home rule with kindness”, to use Gladstone’s old phrase. Hence the existence of cunts like Rory McIlroy

I might get back to you on the other points tomorrow but its 6am, I’ve been drinking for the last 16 hours and I can hardly type so I’m going to bed.

Down will still win the All-Ireland by the way. The C&C club will be putting the fizz in Sam in September.

KIB_man · June 6, 2011, 6:55am

Look mate, on the “joke” thing, I don’t know how it can be anymore obvious, Mr. Totti asked for a score update from the Tyrone-MOnaghan match which happened to be played in Omagh. You came in with a reply about “29 dead”, clearly in a sarcastic, smartarse way. In a way I’d defend your right to write something like that (under the Uaneen rule) because I’ve made jokes in poor taste in the past. But it doesn’t stop me saying that this partcular one was in very poor taste.

Any civilians killed is to be totally regretted, but it has to be remembered that the two main politcal parties in the FS cane out of guerilla groups - it certainly didn’t stop Fianna Fail appointing Frank Aiken as a minister.

I would prefer to see Nationalist-minded people not join the PSNI because it represents a normalising of British rule in what I see as a gerrymandered state but I don’t think they should be shot or blown up either. I don’t think any armed rising has any chance whatsoever of being successful now and therfore all efforts towards a united Ireland have to be peaceful. Unfortunately the British state has been successful in “killing home rule with kindness”, to use Gladstone’s old phrase. Hence the existence of cunts like Rory McIlroy

I might get back to you on the other points tomorrow but its 6am, I’ve been drinking for the last 16 hours and I can hardly type so I’m going to bed.

Down will still win the All-Ireland by the way. The C&C club will be putting the fizz in Sam in September.

it wasnt a joke, the comment may have been in poor taste but was more to rile up a dissident apologist like tooti. im hardly poking fun at the 29 that died and certainly wasnt my intention anyway. its provoked half a decent debate actually.

Sure the war of independence/civil wars had plenty of despicable acts carried out in the name of independence, even earlier 1798 a load of Protestants locked up in a barn and burned alive Nazi style. Hope with 1916 anniversary approaching there might actually be a proper debate about it rather than the ooh aaah up the raa shite that simpletons like Kev etc swallow up who had things clearly explained to them when they were four but havent had the intelligence to figure it out for themselves yet nor will ever to be fair. you cant shine shit I suppose.

Armed rising is dead and has been for sometime, it was never a goer in Norn Iron really since a majority of people there consider themselves British. They have killed home rule with kindness and that is how a united Ireland will be achieved too. Unfortunately for those who want a 32 democratic republic, the 26 is hardly a posterchild for it in fairness, life is better for nationalists in Norn Iron than it would be under Dublin rule at the moment. 80% of the workforce employed by the British state, NHS etc. Let London continue to bankroll it until the republic is in some kind of position to countenance taking it over. That day is a long way off though. Sure as long as everyone has a decent quality of life who really cares who pays the bill.

If nationalist minded people dont join the PSNI then you are left with the RUC. When the unionist community is left in total charge then you can see what happens. I cant believe anyone would want that particularly a nationalist minded person. The more the two communities get on and work together, the more chance of a united Ireland imo not the other way around. McIllroy is a clown but entitled to his view even though he would be well advised keeping it to himself. If working class Protestant lads from Belfast have no problem representing Ireland in the Olympics that clown shouldnt either but alas its not worth getting bothered about. Lennon, McGinn, McCourt etc represented their little state too.

Wouldnt rule Down out but they will need a bit of luck in the qualfier draw. Its tailor made for new teams to have a good run. The Cork forwards seems have got a serious dose of self belief from winning the All Ireland. Will be surprised if they are caught this year.

fenwaypark · June 6, 2011, 9:04am

I have drink on me, but I think I can probably articulate it better this way. In all seriousness, here’s what I think was justified:

The formation of the Provisional IRA in 1969/70, due to the burning of Catholics (the conflict was sectarian as far as Unionists were concerned, not as far as Catholic/Nationalists were concerned, sectarianism has generally been a one way street in BOI) out of their homes and the total impotence of the Official IRA in defending their community. The Short Strand Riots of June 1970 brought this to a head. The “war” escalated in increments.

After internment in January 1971, the British Army and the British state effectively declared war against the Catholic/Nationalist community, reinforcing the already existing apartheid against the Catholic/Nationalist community.

Bloody Sunday heightened the conflict to a new level - after that there was no doubt that the British state was at war against the Catholic/Nationalist community. If you are under siege, you fight back. This is the same reason why, say Hamas or Hizbollah exist. Fighting back in these circumstances is entirely legitimate.

With the obvious collusion between the RUC/B Specials/UVF/UDA/UFF etc it became even more clear that the Catholic/Nationalist community was the victim of a sectarian war. It is entirely understandable that members of the “Crown Forces” became targets n these circumstances.

What is not acceptable is sectarian killings. Tragically this did occur and it is arguable that the PIRA/other groupings such as the INLA etc to some extent became a magnet for scumbags eg Seamus Twomey who was behind the Kingsmills massacre which was sectarian. There were other atrocities such as this eg Darkley and La Mon, Enniskillen etc. These are to be unreservedly condemned. In my view the PIRA campaign lost its focus and lost its way as the years went on. This does not make the aim of the struggle and the actions of the majority of the volunteers anything less than entirely justified. The actions of the hunger strikers remain unimpeachable.

Crown forces remained legitimate targets through the troubles as far as I’m concerned. While I have sympathy for the British soldiers who were caught up in the war, they represented an imperial colonial oppressing force, because let’s face it - that’s what the six counties is - an imperial colony. I have total sympathy for 18/19 year old lads who were involved in something they did no understand at all.

Context is key. The Catholic/Nationalist community for many years was brutalised and subject to an apartheid regime. Like anywhere in the world, they decided they’d had enough. I’d emphasise the words apartheid and brutalised again, just to ram the point home.

"John F. Kennedy had a good quote - “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” This is entrely applicable to the North of Ireland.

As for Omagh - if you think I supported something like that, well, I don’t know what to say mate. Even the bombers admit that they made a horrendous mistake. The whole thing was the most tragic mistake in the modern history of Ireland and it still disturbs me, as does Warrington etc, and I can still remember exactly what I was doing and where I was when I heard about it - I was out for a drive in Kinvara with my parents and my brother. I saw Mick Grimes who had his wife, daughter and grandchild killed at Omagh on Gay Byrne’s last Late Late Show and I’m not ashamed to say I cried uncontrollably. In 2002 we went to Omagh on the fourth anniversary of the bomb and visited the memorial garden and I’m not ashamed to say I cried then either.

By the way I didn’t agree at all with the blowing up of Ronan Kerr - I don’t believe he should have joined the PSNI but that’s a whole different debate.

I’d just prefer if you didn’t make what I see as a cheap joke about Omagh.

anon95599269 · June 6, 2011, 12:10pm

3k at the cork game yesterday-wtf?

thedancingbaby · June 6, 2011, 8:00pm

Desperate stuff.

farmerinthecity · June 7, 2011, 2:11pm

What date is Dublin and Kildare on? I heard something about 26th June. That is going to be a great match. May head along to it if I can.

myboyblue · June 7, 2011, 2:14pm

26/06/2011 16:00 Kildare V Dublin

Double header with

26/06/2011 14:00 Wexford/Westmeath V Carlow/Louth

Rudi · June 7, 2011, 2:47pm

Very poor form by KIB, even by his standards.

myboyblue · June 8, 2011, 9:12am

John Clarke of Down has somewhat bizarrely, retired mid season. Says his heart isnt in it.

caoimhaoin · June 8, 2011, 11:18am

Quite a few IC players have gone mid season lately. Its easy to know why they go though. Its a serious serious effort now. Made for College lads and teachers. Even cops struggle with it these days.

Bandage · June 12, 2011, 1:03pm

Horrible conditions in Carrick. Come on Leitrim. Fergal O’Donnell looks like Al Bundy.

Bandage · June 12, 2011, 1:26pm

Shocking goal to give away. Careless pass by Robbie Lowe to lose the ball inside his own half and I would have expected the keeper to save Shine’s shot.

Appendage · June 12, 2011, 1:34pm

I think Roscommon will win this.

Bandage · June 12, 2011, 1:36pm

Too much lateral passing. Not sure they have the quality in the forwards to take advantage of the conditions in the second half. I reckon Roscommon will take it comfortably enough.

Sidney · June 12, 2011, 1:38pm

The first ten minutes of this was very good with some excellent score taking. But since I went out to reheat the last of yesterday’s homemade curry after about 11 minutes it has developed into a bit of a dirge. Rossies easily the better team.

Rudi · June 12, 2011, 1:39pm

Shocking conditions.

I have a severe disliking for Roscommon people.

anon95599269 · June 12, 2011, 1:51pm

this is comedy gold

Sidney · June 12, 2011, 1:54pm

I have a severe disliking for Leitrim people - Colm O’Rourke, Paul Williams and Farmer for instance.

Bandage · June 12, 2011, 1:55pm

What an attempt at a goal before half time by Croal.