Agreed about the Waterford tactics. They have their defence in good shape but toothless is the word.
One thing I have been meaning to post about.
When Cork lamp balls in on top of Aisake, what do the corner forwards do?
Iâve gone all Andy Gray on this one⌠Hoping to bring our level of discussion to a new levelâŚ
Cos it seemed to me like they just stood still.
Horgan was out in the corner, the ball never came his way and he never got in any positions to compete for breaking ball off Aisake.
So he was taken off for being anonymous.
Was that the case or am I missing something?
A few people here made the point after the first game that Fraggy and Horgan were living off rubbish ball because of the Aisake strategy.
The thing is Cork have produced very few self sufficient forwards recently, due in no small part to how they play (or played). They didnât really need them as all they had to do was move for runners and take handpasses at speed. Winning long balls out of defence wasnât something they had to do a lot of.
The upshot of that is Cork have thrown the old style out the window and donât have the players for a more direct game.
Thats about the size of it. I felt the corners were too far away from Aisake as well though, and the ball to Aisake in recent games has not been consistently good. Paudi Sull stuck closer to him and seemed to do better. Paudi deserves a start at this stage, Hrogan deserves a chance at No.11.
CLD, yourtactics board is an excellent innovation and I agree with you on the lack of movement off Aisake at the weekend. Will you do one for Kilkenny please? Show their half back line staying in situ, their midfield dropping back to complement them and to crowd the space for the opposition forwards and the half forward line in turn playing deep around midfield. Huge work rate from 5-12 ensures the opposition have little time to penetrate or knock over scores from distance before they get frustrated, lose their own discipline and their half back line follows the Kilkenny half forward up into midfield. Next thing, itâs bish, bash, bosh and an isolated full forward line in a straight 3 v 3 match up has got in for a goal followed by another one. Davy is similarly getting his midfield and Molumphy back in defensive areas and crowding out the opposition so itâll be an interesting match up if they do face each other. But, as has been pointed out, Waterford are hugely reliant on Mullane in that system whereas Kilkenny have far greater scoring options. In addition, their forwards are capable of rotating between playing the deep half forward line role or the isolated inside line one.
Thanks. Visio can be a nightmare but for simple stuff like this itâs the shizzle.
I may do one for the semi-final.
Have a bit of business at work to take care of before then.
In fairness to Cork, they brought Niall McCarthy out the field a bit deeper early in the second half and he set up a couple of scores by pumping in ball, but Waterford just left Browne hold his position and dropped a half forward back once they saw he was doing damage meaning that Browne was free to sweep and take ball off Brick and also then took Niall Mc out of the game
Thatâs a fucking spot on analysis right there if ever I heard one.
Kilkenny have this down to a tee and suffocate the life out of opposition teams using the work-rate from 5-12. One thing though beyond tactics is their players natural ability to read a game, or more specifically a delivery. The amount of times the ball broke or got deflected straight into a waiting Tommy Walsh or JJ Delaney in the Leinster Final and countless other games is staggering. Its no accident either but Iâd say its as much to do with these lads simply being superior hurlers than anything neccessarily tactical .
No, not quite, just they prepared better and had a better plan for it. I doubt Waterford was even looked at till a week previous due to club games.
But it has made people think is about how soft are these Tipp players, do they have real balls when the chips are down. Cork played a lovely mixed game that day, they totally left that the last 2 games.
I know i said it the other night, but there isnât much that happens with this Cork team in terms of flukes, but everything certainly went right.
You were on about ball winning half forwards, Cussen and Niall Mac are enough, Horgan is usually a man to win his own ball too, but i thought they really fucked him the way they played, Fraggie seemed to have a free role to come out and get involved and harass opposition, whereas Hoggie was redundant and isolated too far out the wing, on an excellent corner back.
The mechanics of it are simple enough.
You have each of your forwards double mark by âsplitting playersâ.
The centre forward triple marks.
Your full forward line make themselves big enough to make a pass to your half backs look dodgy.
Corner forwards tuck in slightly to block the line of sight to the half backs.
And the traditional landing area of a long puck out becomes a crowded mess.
The KK Forwards mark space more than players.
Your diagram just shows one lad getting behind the target of the ball and one in front - is this not the kind of âone behind, one in frontâ common sense rule that every 12 year old should be taught on the training ground?
Basically, what Cork are trying to do a lot of the time is isolate Aisake with the full back with no support from the corners or the center back and get him to run at the fucker - worst case scenario you get a free, best case you he gets a goal. It worked against Tipp and it worked for Na Piarsigh against the Glen when John Gardiner started at 11 and drifted to midfield, leaving Aisake to run rampage on a helpless full back. Arguably this tactic worked partially in the first half, considering we created a number of goal chances, but we had little luck.
Thing is its very predictable, and didnât work against Waterford, who simply funnelled all of their lines back, which allowed their center back line to hold their position. Brick Walsh had no reason to follow Cussen up the pitch because Waterford had enough players there to cover him. The Cork tactics will work even less effectively against Kilkenny, since they employ the same tactics as Waterford with significantly superior hurlers.
That was the point I was trying to make. Cork management were isolating the corner forwards, in a bad way.
Intentionally not having them there and then taking them off after they had no ball played to them and told to stay the fuck away from the breaks.
Fairly harsh on Horgan who had been your most consistent forward.
Fair enough. TBF I think a Horgan/Aisake/Paudie Sul could do some damage, if we give the ball in further up the pitch and vary the distribution - agree or disagree?
I understand the logic of trying to isolate Aisake, but it doesnât really work when you become so predictable the opposition knows that you are going to hit every ball into him whenever you get a chance.
And if people notice that your corner forwards are being told to stay away from the breaks you can have you corner backs dropping behind as protection for if he catches the ball and for breaks behind.
And you can have your half forward line sweeping the front. Hey fullback, bat., bat, bat. As long he he doesnât catch theyâre golden.
Ya its very flawed from last weeks viewing. The game against Tipp though it was very varied, and it was fairly obvious the people delivering hte balls had particular jobs as well. Last 2 weeks bar JG its been anywhere and anyway.
Yeah, I think the system can possibly work but it depends greatly on distribution. Last week it just seemed to me that we hit as much ball to Aisake as possible in the hope that heâd either get a few goals or get Lawlor sent off. The chances we did get we missed and the ref gave Aisake nothing.
