Yep so have I. Still tho he wont be creating as many chances as Cha would at top flight. Is it likely that Lyng will start ahead of Cha in any case?
I’m putting my hope in Tyrell picking up Kelly when in fact the other two are more dangerous. Obviously it depends on the ball going in to them but McGrath and Corbett against Kavanagh and Delaney has the potential to be a serious mismatch
Carey launches defence of targeted Cats star Walsh
By Brendan OBrien
Thursday, August 27, 2009
DJ CAREY yesterday launched an impassioned defence of Kilkenny wing-back Tommy Walsh whose no-nonsense style of play has been questioned by some pundits.
The retired Kilkenny legend and former hurler of the year described the criticism as unjustified and unfair and also claimed that Walsh is being routinely targeted by opponents.
“I know I am not talking on camera,” said Carey holding his hand out in front of his body, "but if a guy puts his hand out there to catch a ball, he deserves a belt.
“And if he gets a belt there,” he continued raising a hand above his head, "thats fine and no-one says anything.
“If you get a bang up there, no one says anything but if you get a belt down there Tommy Walsh is hammered for it and it is brought up on television. If someone goes in and chops a fellow on the hand that is a totally different story but, if the ball is there, there has to be some way that you can tackle for that ball.”
Carey claimed that was a concerted effort by teams to pinpoint Walsh, by running into him before the first whistle or off the ball.
“That is the way it has been for the last number of years in every game he has played. Tommy is a fantastic hurler. He is 57” or 8" and he can catch a ball over anyones head. He has beautiful skill, he is as tough as nails. Every game I specifically look at Tommy Walsh to see what is happening and, invariably from the throw-in, someone is tearing into him."
Carey believes the spotlight has been intensified since Ger Loughnane talked about Kilkenny players living on the edge a few seasons back and that it is also being fuelled by the Leinster countys run of success.
“What teams are looking at, whether it is individuals or whether it is management or whoever it is, they are looking at this and they are saying rattle Tommy, get stuck into him and you might get him sent-off. Its a gameplan to get him sent off, which is something that should not be happening in the game. If he deserves to be sent off, absolutely, send him off and I would have no argument with that.”
The perception that Kilkenny tend to indulge in the physical stuff has led many a side to try to fight fire with fire but, as was demonstrated in last years All-Ireland final, Brian Codys men are well able to handle such an approach.
"If I was trying to take on a member of the Kilkenny team presently, I would not be trying to rile him. Every first ball that has come down between Tommy Walsh and his man, Tommy has won 90 per cent of them.
“I would be inclined to stay as quiet as I can and hurl my own game. If you want a team to be tough, if you want to hurl dirty, you wont get a better team than Kilkenny. You can hurl, you can act the Mick against them, or you can be very dirty and they will match you in every aspect but they will be better hurlers than you. There is no team being successful doing it so why not try something different.”
why they feel the need to protest so much over it all. its themselves that keep bringing it up and keep it in the media. I think Walsh is a scut, but a fine player. He loses the head, but every year KK dominate, they always try find something to whinge about the team. this year its Walsh and ‘ducking into tackles’.
No, thats everyone else whinging about these things.
Surprised to see that I am the only one to go for Kilkenny by 1 - 3 …
[quote=“Watch The Break”]Carey launches defence of targeted Cats star Walsh
[/quote]
Cue a plethora of impassioned articles defending KK over the next 10 days or so.
yeah sorry, thats what I meant. last year you had all the shite about throwing the ball and tapping the hands. and then Eddie Brennan and targetting young lads. the majority of people can appreciate the finer points of KK’s skill and quality hurling, but there are a lot of begrudgers out there who try find something about them to tar them with and say they are ruining hurling or some such shite.
Any insider knowledge floating around, ladies?
I see Kilkenny’s ex players are coming out in force to defend Tommy Walsh and complain that the opposition are targeting him to try to get him sent off.
Give it a rest, lads. He’s a great player but a dirty little cunt so spare treating us like simpletons.
I was just looking for the thread. Got to page 8 and went back to page 1 and there it was newly bumped.
Rocko, can this be added to the smileies for the week? Go on.
For the purposes of equality I can make a Tipp one too and a “Paedo Stick is lame” one for NCC and Flano.
A bit shambolic in fairness
The invisible captains
Tipperary’s Willie Ryan and Kilkenny’s Michael Fennelly lifted the provincial titles for their counties this year but, while one will hoist the McCarthy Cup in the Hogan stand next Sunday, neither are likely to see much action. Martin Breheny examines one of the GAA’s strangest phenomenons
WHEN Kilkenny won the Leinster final at Croke Park on the first Sunday in July, it was assumed that Henry Shefflin would head for the Hogan Stand to receive the Bob O’Keeffe Cup.
Shefflin had led the team out, took the toss, headed them in the parade and would have been perceived as very much the on-field captain in the course of a game where Kilkenny resisted Dublin’s feisty advance and picked up their ninth provincial title of the decade. However, that’s where his leadership ended.
Once the game was over, the honour of receiving the cup reverted to Kilkenny’s No 24. Michael Fennelly hadn’t come on as a sub but he is Kilkenny captain for 2009 and would fulfil the duty and the honour that goes with the role.
A week later, it was Tipperary’s No 28 who nudged through the thronging masses at Semple Stadium as he headed for the presentation area to be presented with the Munster championship trophy. Toomevara’s Willie Ryan had come on as a sub at half-time against Waterford and was now doing his captain’s thing.
Next Sunday, it’s likely that both captains will be sitting on the bench when Kilkenny and Tipperary line up for the All-Ireland final. It’s a most unusual situation, brought about by the tradition of allowing the county champions to nominate the captain for the following year.
Change
Ironically, this is the last year it will apply in Tipperary who, from 2010 on, will allow the team management to choose who they want to lead the team. A move to change the system was resisted in Tipperary a few years ago but those who believed it was past time for a fresh approach persisted with their campaign and eventually persuaded a majority to back them.
There are no such plans in Kilkenny, who are happy to continue with the policy of allowing county champions to nominate the captain. Ballyhale Shamrocks have won the county title for the past three seasons and with Henry Shefflin and ‘Cha’ Fitzpatrick locked into the Kilkenny starting 15 there was a natural order to the captain’s line for the first two years.
Fennelly was next in the Ballyhale sequence but he has not been able to tie down a starting place on a permanent basis. He was on the team for the Leinster semi-final against Galway but was replaced by Derek Lyng after 47 minutes. He hasn’t played since then and is unlikely to get in next Sunday either.
Fennelly is unlucky. How many midfielders, captains or otherwise, have ever found themselves vying with such high-class opposition as Fitzpatrick, Lyng and the consistent Michael Rice, who has been Kilkenny’s main anchor tenant all season?
Even when Fennelly has been outside the top 15, Kilkenny continue to clearly identify him as team captain on match programmes, whereas Tipperary obviously believe that the leader of the starting team should be named as captain. Hence, Conor O’Mahony (Newport) has been named as captain (at least for the start of games) throughout the championship.
The irony is that the Tipp county champions, Toomevara, have a guaranteed starter in John O’Brien but a decision was taken by the county board early in the year that, while Ryan would be captain when he played, it would otherwise switch to O’Mahony.
It’s most unusual that neither captain is likely to start the final. It’s also a situation which would never arise in other sports or indeed in many other counties who have long since abandoned the policy of allowing the champion club to name one of its own as captain.
Tipperary had more reason than most to feel uncomfortable with it after the major controversy in 1988 when ‘Babs’ Keating and his co-selectors dropped captain Pa O’Neill (Cappawhite) from the starting line-up for the All-Ireland final against Galway. It led to uproar in Cappawhite, where the local club wanted the decision changed and demanded a meeting with the county board.
Keating found himself summoned to a county board meeting to explain his decision. As the whiff of sulphur wafted across Tipperary, it quickly became apparent that what should have been a great time for the county, as they pursued their first All-Ireland win in 17 years, had degenerated into acrimony.
And while Keating did his best to divert the toxic fumes away from the panel, they couldn’t avoid them all. Galway beat Tipperary which further added to the controversy as now a sense of loss had been tossed into the mix.
Rather bizarrely, it was claimed that Keating dropped O’Neill because he wanted Nicky English as captain. Resentment ran deep for a long time with Keating receiving letters and phone calls berating him for his decision.
Despite the deep divisions which opened up at the time, Tipperary persisted with the traditional system of appointing captains and had a few other edgy moments over later years when county champions weren’t always represented on the team.
The closest Kilkenny came to a controversy was in 2003 when Charlie Carter, who had been nominated captain by Young Irelands, quit the panel during the Leinster championship after not featuring during a semi-final game against Dublin. He had come as a sub in the National League final which Kilkenny won and had received the trophy.
It was to be his last game for the county. He was deeply dissatisfied with what he regarded as an increasingly peripheral role on the panel but the team management held firm after he walked out, making no effort bring him back.
Three months later, he watched the All-Ireland final in his wife’s parents’ house and saw his club colleague, DJ Carey, lift the Liam McCarthy Cup.
Kilkenny remain quite happy to retain the system of appointing their captains, presumably on the basis that their All-Ireland record speaks for itself.
Irrespective of whether or not he starts, Fennelly will captain Kilkenny next Sunday. It’s the way they do things and they see no reason for change. Based on the Leinster final experience, he will receive the cup if Kilkenny win, even if he hasn’t come on at any stage.
Ryan came on as a sub in each of Tipperary’s three games so far – against Cork, Waterford and Limerick – so presumably he will play some role next Sunday, including perhaps lifting the Liam McCarthy Cup, just as his Toomevara colleague Tommy Dunne did when Tipp last won the All-Ireland in 2001.
Despite the apparent acceptance of the rather unusual situation, there’s something odd about the fact that the two best teams in the country are captained by players who haven’t been able to hold down first-team places. Once again, it shows how tradition counts to such a huge degree, even if Tipperary will dispense with this particular aspect next year. As for Kilkenny, they will continue doing what they’ve always done. Given their record, who can argue with them?
A bit shambolic in fairness
The invisible captains
Tipperarys Willie Ryan and Kilkennys Michael Fennelly lifted the provincial titles for their counties this year but, while one will hoist the McCarthy Cup in the Hogan stand next Sunday, neither are likely to see much action. Martin Breheny examines one of the GAAs strangest phenomenons
WHEN Kilkenny won the Leinster final at Croke Park on the first Sunday in July, it was assumed that Henry Shefflin would head for the Hogan Stand to receive the Bob O’Keeffe Cup.
Shefflin had led the team out, took the toss, headed them in the parade and would have been perceived as very much the on-field captain in the course of a game where Kilkenny resisted Dublin’s feisty advance and picked up their ninth provincial title of the decade. However, that’s where his leadership ended.
Once the game was over, the honour of receiving the cup reverted to Kilkenny’s No 24. Michael Fennelly hadn’t come on as a sub but he is Kilkenny captain for 2009 and would fulfil the duty and the honour that goes with the role.
A week later, it was Tipperary’s No 28 who nudged through the thronging masses at Semple Stadium as he headed for the presentation area to be presented with the Munster championship trophy. Toomevara’s Willie Ryan had come on as a sub at half-time against Waterford and was now doing his captain’s thing.
Next Sunday, it’s likely that both captains will be sitting on the bench when Kilkenny and Tipperary line up for the All-Ireland final. It’s a most unusual situation, brought about by the tradition of allowing the county champions to nominate the captain for the following year.
Change
Ironically, this is the last year it will apply in Tipperary who, from 2010 on, will allow the team management to choose who they want to lead the team. A move to change the system was resisted in Tipperary a few years ago but those who believed it was past time for a fresh approach persisted with their campaign and eventually persuaded a majority to back them.
There are no such plans in Kilkenny, who are happy to continue with the policy of allowing county champions to nominate the captain. Ballyhale Shamrocks have won the county title for the past three seasons and with Henry Shefflin and ‘Cha’ Fitzpatrick locked into the Kilkenny starting 15 there was a natural order to the captain’s line for the first two years.
Fennelly was next in the Ballyhale sequence but he has not been able to tie down a starting place on a permanent basis. He was on the team for the Leinster semi-final against Galway but was replaced by Derek Lyng after 47 minutes. He hasn’t played since then and is unlikely to get in next Sunday either.
Fennelly is unlucky. How many midfielders, captains or otherwise, have ever found themselves vying with such high-class opposition as Fitzpatrick, Lyng and the consistent Michael Rice, who has been Kilkenny’s main anchor tenant all season?
Even when Fennelly has been outside the top 15, Kilkenny continue to clearly identify him as team captain on match programmes, whereas Tipperary obviously believe that the leader of the starting team should be named as captain. Hence, Conor O’Mahony (Newport) has been named as captain (at least for the start of games) throughout the championship.
The irony is that the Tipp county champions, Toomevara, have a guaranteed starter in John O’Brien but a decision was taken by the county board early in the year that, while Ryan would be captain when he played, it would otherwise switch to O’Mahony.
It’s most unusual that neither captain is likely to start the final. It’s also a situation which would never arise in other sports or indeed in many other counties who have long since abandoned the policy of allowing the champion club to name one of its own as captain.
Tipperary had more reason than most to feel uncomfortable with it after the major controversy in 1988 when ‘Babs’ Keating and his co-selectors dropped captain Pa O’Neill (Cappawhite) from the starting line-up for the All-Ireland final against Galway. It led to uproar in Cappawhite, where the local club wanted the decision changed and demanded a meeting with the county board.
Keating found himself summoned to a county board meeting to explain his decision. As the whiff of sulphur wafted across Tipperary, it quickly became apparent that what should have been a great time for the county, as they pursued their first All-Ireland win in 17 years, had degenerated into acrimony.
And while Keating did his best to divert the toxic fumes away from the panel, they couldn’t avoid them all. Galway beat Tipperary which further added to the controversy as now a sense of loss had been tossed into the mix.
Rather bizarrely, it was claimed that Keating dropped O’Neill because he wanted Nicky English as captain. Resentment ran deep for a long time with Keating receiving letters and phone calls berating him for his decision.
Despite the deep divisions which opened up at the time, Tipperary persisted with the traditional system of appointing captains and had a few other edgy moments over later years when county champions weren’t always represented on the team.
The closest Kilkenny came to a controversy was in 2003 when Charlie Carter, who had been nominated captain by Young Irelands, quit the panel during the Leinster championship after not featuring during a semi-final game against Dublin. He had come as a sub in the National League final which Kilkenny won and had received the trophy.
It was to be his last game for the county. He was deeply dissatisfied with what he regarded as an increasingly peripheral role on the panel but the team management held firm after he walked out, making no effort bring him back.
Three months later, he watched the All-Ireland final in his wife’s parents’ house and saw his club colleague, DJ Carey, lift the Liam McCarthy Cup.
Kilkenny remain quite happy to retain the system of appointing their captains, presumably on the basis that their All-Ireland record speaks for itself.
Irrespective of whether or not he starts, Fennelly will captain Kilkenny next Sunday. It’s the way they do things and they see no reason for change. Based on the Leinster final experience, he will receive the cup if Kilkenny win, even if he hasn’t come on at any stage.
Ryan came on as a sub in each of Tipperary’s three games so far – against Cork, Waterford and Limerick – so presumably he will play some role next Sunday, including perhaps lifting the Liam McCarthy Cup, just as his Toomevara colleague Tommy Dunne did when Tipp last won the All-Ireland in 2001.
Despite the apparent acceptance of the rather unusual situation, there’s something odd about the fact that the two best teams in the country are captained by players who haven’t been able to hold down first-team places. Once again, it shows how tradition counts to such a huge degree, even if Tipperary will dispense with this particular aspect next year. As for Kilkenny, they will continue doing what they’ve always done. Given their record, who can argue with them?
it’s a silly rule IMO, and thankfully a motion was passed in Wexford a couple of years back to get rid of captains being automatically selected due to club champions. Its the managers discretion, and last year the hurling captain was from the victorious club anyway.
Is it just me or is the build up to this years final fairly low key so far…
Nerves. This final is fuckin huge. Both counties terrified of losing.
I’ll be a nervous wreck come Sunday morning.
At the moment [I know it’s early] I’m staring ticketlessness in the face.
If any of ye hear anything about spare tickets for Sunday let me know. Our usual channels are throwing up nothing so far. My brother usually has 2 nailed down by now and we have nada.
Ive just been to 9 games[2 double headers] this year… 
GAA would want to get cracking on some kind of proper honours system that guarantees you an AI ticket if you go to so many games. I know there is one that requires you to go to 75% of league games. League is not the same as championship. I’ve been to a good few KK games but 75% is too big an ask to be trekking all over the country home and away. If you go to all your teams championship games you should be guaranteed and AI ticket.
1 Cork v Tipp
2 Kilkenny v Galway
3 Cork v Offaly
4 Laois v Limerick
5 Cork v Galway
6 Kilkenny v Dublin
7 Limerick v Dublin
8 Galway v Waterford
9 Kilkenny v Waterford
As for the game itself it’s hard to know how things will go.
I think Tipp will need at least 3 goals, possibly more to win.
We typically get more than 20 points so if we get 1 or 2 goals we should be in a position to win.
I think it will be close all way through. My hope is that KK defense will hold Tipp to something along the lines of 2-15 and score something along the lines of 1-22. On a good offensive day KK are capable of up to 10 points more. On a bad defensive day this Tipp team could take us for 4+ goals like in the league final but I’m not sure that they are capable of matching the KK points total. They have yet to top 20 points in any game this year. Couple that with tight KK defending and the natural nerves that come with AI Final day I can see their best case scenario being 4-17 or so.
So the key to this game is simple, if KK can match or beat the Tipp goal total I believe they will win. 1 less we could be ok, 2 less we are in trouble, 3 less we are fucked.
Man of match market is a tad mental this year. Nobody tell kev, he may blow up like he did with the HOTY market.
After last years ridiculous cop out they are now including managers.
Of the KK lads there I’d look at Rice, Tennyson and Walsh.
Tipp lads much like HOTY I’d look at Padraig Maher and Noel McGrath.
The MOTM and HOTY markets don’t align all that well. Walsh is 12/1 for MOTM but 13/2 for HOTY. I’d reckon Tommy’d have to be MOTM to be HOTY.
Any cross border excursions going on this week on either side fellas?
Im in a shit position with the tickets myself,i have two Cusack Stand section 303 side by side for mesef and my brother but we always sit in the Hogan,havent been in the Cusack for Years,if i dont get them moved on for two Hogan by Sunday i dont know what ill do,its a cunt.
Im liking Fogarty and Jackie Tyrells 22/1 odds for MOTM,Ill have a small cut at those two.
Cluain - Are you not a member of a club?
I’d help out if i could but i’ve exhausted a process with a number of Tipp friends in exchange for football tickets, and my head is wrecked from it.
Anyway anybody who really wants to go will always get in, end of.
Your right about the honours system. Badly needed, its not that hard, a bardcoded system or membership card ticked off for everytime you enter league or championship games. Wouldn’t be that hard to implement this day in age.
[quote=“caoimhaoin”]Cluain - Are you not a member of a club?
I’d help out if i could but i’ve exhausted a process with a number of Tipp friends in exchange for football tickets, and my head is wrecked from it.
Anyway anybody who really wants to go will always get in, end of.
Your right about the honours system. Badly needed, its not that hard, a bardcoded system or membership card ticked off for everytime you enter league or championship games. Wouldn’t be that hard to implement this day in age.[/quote]
I know tickets will appear later in the week or at worst outside the stadium on Sunday like in 2007[you couldn’t give them away]. If Cork were playing I’d be more worried. I just had one of the brothers ringing me yesterday saying that he usually has a couple by now and doesn’t.
I’m kind of between clubs at the moment. One of my other brothers is back playing with the club in KK and one of the others is playing in Cork. I have been planning on joining a club up here for a while but various fitness setbacks have hampered me.
It should be grand I just think people who go to all the games during the year should be treated better. They have the barcode readers at games it should be piss easy to do.
Tipperary v Kilkenny.
This match is quite simply massive for both Counties. If Kilkenny win this game I can’t see them being stopped making History in 2010 by being the first ever five-in-a-row team. However, if Tipp were to win, we could very well witness the start of a Tipperary period of dominance in Hurling.
Tipp last met Kilkenny in 1991 when a lucky enough Michael Cleary goal ushered Tipp to a narrow victory. Indeed, Tipperary have beaten Kilkenny nine times in All-Ireland Finals, only losing five. Tipperary have no worry of Kilkenny in a final.
Kilkenny have beaten Galway, Dublin and Waterford to reach the final while Tipp have taken care of Cork, clare and Waterford before demolishing lacklustre Limerick in the semi-final. Kilkenny have conceded a lot more this season that is normal for them. 3-13 leaked to Galway and 3-15 to an average Waterford forward unit in the semi-final. Tipp might be better advised to play quick early ball into the full forward line rather than going for mid to long range points. There is a lack of pace in the Kilkenny full back line but this will not come into play unless the supply of ball in is decent and plentiful.
Tipp must settle early on - it took us 10 minutes to settle properly in the Limerick match and in 10 minutes Kilkenny have the ability to put the game beyond you. Tipp will be looking to OMahony (who hopefully will be fit) Kelly and Corbett to deliver at the weekend. Kelly is due a big one - Hopefully it comes this Sunday.