Re: Champions League - Match Day 4

You fuckers - lying at home in bed sick and I come on to read this shite.

Couple of quick points:

I share some musical interests with bandage but for the most part our tastes are very different.

Along with millions of people the world over I thorougly enjoy Home and Away - both before and after Bandage came into my life.

On Robbie Keane it’s a question of consistency. What galls me is journalists who love him when they have no choice but to, but put the boot in after one bad game. I had plenty of debates with bandage on the merits of Robbie Keane in the past - not something we’ve always seen eye to eye on.

Bandage has defended his interest in Celtic eloquently. There is no need to justify an emotional affinity with the club - it exists that’s all that matters. Fuck off with your foreign club crap tommymoore. You hate everything and everyone that operates outside your comfortable little inbred shithole of a parish - some of us are a little more outward looking.

Finally bandage’s perceived increased interest in Celtic conincides with a downturn in their fortunes (post Seville) and not the other way around.

Sheridan scored again for the U19s today as they beat the Huns 2-1 (his 11th of the season at that level).

is the one who brought up emotional affinity not me. So fook off yourself, you seem to take personal insult in everything I type even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with you. More emotional ties to Celtic than Man City, did you ever read such Bollocks.

Yeah you said Bandage couldn’t have an emotional affinity with Celtic cause he’s not from Scotland. (The irony of that comment coming from a Liverpool fan who cannot stand half his own county has probably escaped you). That is complete horseshit. I too support Celtic but I’ve no family from Scotland - so it has everything to do with me.

The main reason I started supporting Celtic was because of the Irish ethos - founded by an Irishman. I cpuld go on and on about the Irishness of the club but I won’t bother because you’re caught up in your own narrow-minded, isolationist views where you don’t bother listening to anyone else.

I don’t have or claim to an emotional attachment to Liverpool so there’s no irony there. I began following Liverpool in the late 80s due to the number of Irish players on the team at the time, I still follow them, watch the games on TV etc but do not have an emotional attachement to them.

Me narrow minded? This is coming from the man who stood in Frasers the night of the Celtic Barca game a few years ago sang Irish rebel songs with all the other patrons yet booed and hissed at the only Irish man on the field when he was introduced in the second half. (Neil Lennon yeah but he plays for the North) The reason: he got offered a contract at a big club south of the border and took it. Don’t lecture me about narrow mindedness.

[quote=therock67 ]
The main reason I started supporting Celtic was because of the Irish ethos - founded by an Irishman. [/quote]

Any theory as to why so many Irish support Celtic and so few support Hibernians - also founded by Irishmen and drawing on the Irish Catholic population, well before their Glasgow counterparts?

So if you’ve no emotional attachment to Liverpool do you not feel any emotion when you watch them play? Are you really that cold that you don’t smile when they score or are saddened when United beat them? It’s complete bullshit tommy and well you know it.

My booing of Liam Miller in Frasers has nothing to do with nationality. He had turned his back in Celtic so the fans turned their back on him. You even know yourself Lennon was playing but again your preconceived prejudices take over so you don’t allow him to be Irish. Pathetic. You call yourself a GAA man - there’s not too many partitionists in that organistion. But then you’re just a mess of contradictions and hypocrisy. Gobshite.

Many reasons Law. Hibs had a relatively strong Irish following in Edinburgh but there were many, many more Irish (Catholic) immigrants in the west of Scotland than the east - most of the sectarian conflict was in the west.

Also Hibernian sold out on their Irish roots a long time ago - they did not support Celtic in the league’s efforts to have Celtic expelled for flying a tricolour at Celtic Park. They started with a sectarian signing policy, oddly enough, but soon got rid of most of their symbols of Irishness in order to better conform with Scottish society.

Proximity to Ireland (particularly Belfast) would also have been a major factor. Especially once Belfast Celtic folded there was no natural outlet for northern Catholics to support other than looking to Glasgow.

Im not angry, just somewhat bemused. Ill leave Celtic until the end and get the other stuff out of the way first.

I have watched Home and Away religiously since Tom and Pippa arrived in the Bay in their van back in 1987. Though being only 6 years old at the time I can recall them having a run in with Donald Fisher, who stepped out in front of them, and the late (and dearly missed) Tom Foster purposefully drove into a puddle, in the process splashing Flathead and so my love affair began.

Myself and Rocko have a few shared musical interests but not an outrageous amount by any stretch of the imagination. I wouldnt have listened to a lot of the stuff he listens to and vice versa. I bought We Are Scientists and Bloc Party tickets over the past few weeks and never even consulted with Rocko! I might do that now actually Rocko, do you approve? (Please say yes, please say yes. Although I know he isnt that big into the English indie scene or many of these American upstarts. What have I done? I may have started listening to something Rocko doesnt. Best burn the tickets) You fools! By the way we both like Damien Dempsey and I believe Rocko and the missus have tickets for Vicar Street in December and I do too farmer, is that alright with you?

Robbie Keanes performance on Sunday explains why I swear by my captain. Simply magnificent I dont have to say anything else really but he destroyed Ferreira in the first half (he was taken off at half time). Boulharouz (spelling?) came on and was then taken off after 67 minutes such was the chasing Keano gave him. The boy was sensational. He is also Irelands record goal scorer at the age of 26 having scored critical goals in a side without a consistent play maker to create chances for him. I dont really see the issue here. Hes a national treasure and I can make up my own mind on that. I dont necessarily jump to criticise him when one of the Oirish tabloids stitches him up or some idiot like Dion Fanning or Gerry McDermott has a pop at him. Again, does this explanation suffice?

As for Celtic I really dont see tommymoores point on the emotional attachment issue. Its certainly far from the bollox he purports it to be. Of course an Irish person can feel an emotional attachment to a team like Celtic who were set up by an Irish person as an outlet for impoverished Irish immigrants in Glasgow and count amongst their core support 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th generation Irish people in Scotland and thousands more here in the land of its founding fathers. Celtic is more than a football club to these people and also thousands more among the Irish diaspora abroad as Tommy Burns said Celtic is a people and a cause. Its about standing up and making something of yourself, not giving into to the prejudices you experience in your day to day life and being open and welcoming to those you meet along the way. Not everyone is Celtic minded but that doesnt prevent Celtic from inviting them to share in the Celtic way of life - Celtic have never had a sectarian signing policy but equally have always remained true to its Irish roots. This manifests itself in the Irish songs that are sung at the ground, the Irish players lining out at all levels for the club and the clubs presence in Ireland via supporters clubs, supporter functions, club shops etc. As a proud Irish man I make no apology for supporting a team, a club, an institution, a shining example, a beacon of Irish success and achievement. I make absolutely no apology at all.

As for Manchester City I have explained my support for them. Similarly I have said that as I have grown older I have realised that there is no discernable bond between me and the club like there is with Celtic. Sure I like individual players and still watch them play regularly but it does not run as deep as Celtic. Again, I dont see the issue here. Anyone who claims that this Celtic thing is a recent thing is wide of the mark. Not that I need to justify myself I feel I must based on these unprecedented attacks! I always watched Celtic when I was a child in Wexford. Already Ive mentioned the New Years Day game in the 1 in a row season. I watched Paul Byrne score a volley in a 1-1 draw at Ibrox. I watched Rangers win 3-0 at Celtic Park to seal the League as Hugh Dallas disgraced himself! I watched Jorge Cadete have a legitimate goal disallowed at Ibrox and then Erik Bo Johannsson score the winner from the resulting counter attack. Now I am Dublin based allowing me to watch games every week, like on Saturday, that I would not have been in a position to see before. Similarly, the internet is a valuable resource as is the cash I earn in my job that ensures I can now afford to travel to games.

To all the doubters I have one final thing to say (as Gordon Strachan screamed to Paul Hartley when the winner went in on Saturday): Get it right fookin up ye. I am proud to support Celtic.

How can you argue with that post? So eloquent. Bandage you have done yourself proud. And yes, you may attend Damien Dempsey

I still hold the same opinion though - that is that you and ‘Rocko’, as you call him, are in cahoots

All got a bit serious didnt it?

Touche Bandage, a fine riposte.

Well the first post of this thread set out a challenge as to whether this could become as heated as the Match Day 3 thread and I think that was achieved.

Farmer: I think “Rocko” was coined by Ball Ox and Bandage is merely bowing to the great man’s idea.

Came into my life? You make him sound like a bird or something…

Firstly good post Bandage, Im not even going to attempt to try and argue with any of the points you made, I take my beating on that one. You put your point across very well without having to resort to petty insults. Gobshite I may well be, your not the first or wont be the last person to think this.

A couple of other things before I sail away into the sunset:
In about 3 posts Ive been referred to as coming from a comfortable little inbred shithole of a parish, as not be been able to stand half his own country, as having narrow-minded, isolationist views and of being just a mess of contradictions and hypocrisy. That was just in this thread, I was also accused of being of using sweeping generalisations. And this all comes from a man that hardly knows me.

Accused of using generalisations and then its said I come from a comfortable little inbred shithole of a parish even though he knows little or nothing about the place. Pot kettle black I say.
Narrow minded isolationist views yet he fails to see the irony in this considering he cant see sense in the fact Liam Miller left Celtic. Fair enough it didnt work out for him but thats besides the point.
a mess of contradictions and hypocrisy coming from the Socialist who works for a plc. Slight contradiction there.
Cant stand half his country yet Ive worked and went to college in a number of places throughout the county yet get on fairly well with most people I meet.
Rock I think your every bit the mess of contradictions and hypocrisy you think I am. Get down off your high horse, your far from perfect yourself.

From reading the rantings of both Bandage and Rock over the last number of years I always reckoned but were lost in their chosen professions and could have earned a good living for themselves in journalism. I still think that by the way. However I reckon Rock may be better suited to tabloid journalism. His insults noted above resemble the type of sensational thrash youd read in the News of the World or Sun by the likes of Roy Curtis etc.

You again referred to the emotional attachment in your last post and my refusal to acknowledge I have one to Liverpool. I stand by this, what I consider an emotional attachement are the emotions I go through when watching my county in Croke Park. The emotions I will feel when I see a Galway man lift Liam McCarthy again or the ones I felt in Pearse stadium 3 weeks ago. Of course Im happy when Liverpool win a big game etc but these are a hell of a lot different to the emotions just mentioned.

Now Im sure your come back with another sensational Roy Curtis type post, you dont back down (the Scandinavia argument from a few years back being a case in point). You can come out with all the over the top type bullshit you want, I wont be responding to it.

Adios.

If you don’t want to reply to this then fine but I’ll still have my say:

  • The reason my criticisms of your posts were so agitated is because you hold such conflicting and unreasonable views on plenty of issues. You were clearly looking for a rise when you made your Neil Lennon comment - if not, then I suggest you try airing your partionist views in Croke Park one Sunday and see what support you get from your brethern there. If there’s one thing I can’t stand in this country it’s free-staters without the moral courage to think for themselves about the 6 counties. Repeating all these soundbites about “not being from here” and such bullshit.

  • There is no irony in Liam Miller leaving Celtic and my criticisms of your “narrowmindedness.” How exactly are the two analogous?

  • To me, and to most real socialists in this country, the two best socialist politicians in this country are Joe Higgins and Clare Daly from the Socialist Party. Who does Daly work for? Aer Lingus PLC! If I had set up a plc that might harm my socialist credentials - earning a living with a former semi-state institution (exactly like Aer Lingus) is in no way incompatible with a socialist mindset. That is, if you really understand socialism.

  • I actually don’t even know who Roy Curtis is but I’m hurt anyway because I’d say he’s a prick.

  • You do have an emotional attachment to Liverpool, you just won’t admit it. You do feel emotion when they are playing.

I don’t really want to get into a debate here about the merits of socialism and capitalism but the very mention of Claire Daly sends shivers down my spine. She was one of our guest lecturers in college after the bin tax controversy and I have never been more enraged by a person in my life. Speech was full of ‘Berte taking brown paper bags’ bullshit. She will say what is wrong with the world but will give no indication of how to fix it.

I asked her a question that same day. She justified her stand against the bin tax and her constitutents disobeying the tax by saying it was an unjust tax in the first place. I asked her if she would be happy for her constitutents to disobey the murder law, as a law is a law at the end of the day and she laughed it off with something like ‘where are ya going with muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurder?’ Answer the fucking question bitch.

And she’s absolutely kicked…

Joe Higgins is class though. Probably the best speaker in the Dil, and couldn’t question his integrity, such as in taking only the average industrial worker’s wage, and in going to jail on the Bin Tax issue (even though I disagree with his stance, as I felt the tax just constituted paying for a service, I suppose a flat tax can be argued as being inequitable, in that it has a greater impact on the poor).

I’ll ignore the last comment Farmer because it has nothing to do with the issues.

[rant]

Clare Daly, and the Socialist Party in general, have plenty of ideas on how to remedy the world. They include taxation reform, better labour legislation, more environmental taxes, a higher minimum wage, an end to political donations etc. Just because you may not be familiar with their policies does not mean they do not exist. And it is much harder for them to make themselves heard because they are not bankrolled by donations like all other parties other than the Greens (who still accept donations from private individuals as far as I know).

The bin-tax was not introduced as part of national legislation - if that was the case it would be a national charge. It is levied by local government as a means of revenue generation - unlike income tax for example which is payable to central revenue. There is a huge difference between the laws and their enforcability.

I think Joe Higgins is by far and away the best politician in the Dil at present. I recently purchased the Gama strikes DVD made by the Socialist Party and it makes for excellent viewing. The involvement of the government in inviting Gama to Ireland in the first place hamstrung them when they came to investigate the wrongdoings. Slightly off-topic maybe but I think it’s typical of some people in this country (not necessarily yourself) who just don’t want to know about what their government is up to again and again. I recently read over 400 pages of the Mahon Tribunal from their website and it is amazing reading. What the politicians of this country have gotten away with for years is incredible. And then to have petty comments about the honest people who are seeking to change that undermines any public move against corruption.

I was listening to Michael Martin and Ruairi Quinn on the radio yesterday talking about the minimum wage. The government agencies have collected 2m in outstanding wages from employers over the last 3 years because companies have been breaking the law and underpaying labour. There has not been a single prosectuion as a result because Michael Martin said that the people don’t want to see any charges, they just want their money back. Quinn didn’t bother disagreeing - the sellout that he is. The state has employed 15 people collecting 2m from uncooperative employers and we don’t even fine them for breaking the law in the first place. But we will jail protestors who are open enough to demonstrate against what they see as unfair charges. One rule for business, and one rule for the individual. But most of the people don’t care. Fucking sickens me.

[/rant]

Exactly Law. Whether you agree with his stance or not he is open enough to pursue it in public and if all our public representatives were that honest then this country would be a far better place to live in.

My dislike for Daly came purely from her lecture and what she said (or lack of what she said).

I have to also admit to admiring Higgins. I was never so sickened to see him in the Dail giving out about something (can’t quite remember what) and being shot down by Conor Lenihan’s ‘stick with the kebabs’. Here was a guy who actually believes in the people he is to serve but was laughed off by some fat cat politican who sits there and stamps his forms and sets up committees about what to serve in the canteen. The worse thing about it is that he is still in office. Higgins is the only voice in the Dail who will actually stand up against the corporate big wigs and you simply have to admire that.

That said I disagree with the stance taken with the bin taxes. There were plenty of honest people who paid their taxes but who suffered because the protest would not let the bin trucks collect their rubbish. Things also got quite heated and there may have been some degree of coercion against those actually in support of the bin tax. That cannot be justified