Re: General Election Thurs 24th May

Did you have a nice drive around Leinster piper?

Strange timing alright. Bertie must have read that Any Given Sunday speech on the football team forum.

Is Mary Lou not a career politician? Socialist Party don’t have career politicians. I’d hope Greens or Socialists get the balance of power because they can bring about real change. If Sinn Fein got in I really don’t know what they’d alter. They’ve hardly transformed the six counties into a socialist state and they’re as reliant on donations as all the other parties (other than Greens and socialists who don’t allow it) meaning they have the same exposure to corruption.

FF are certainly trying to make it a presidential contest and they’ll destroy FG on that score. Bertie’s profile is huge and will only be helped by his speeches to the parliament in London etc.

And SF are pro-business? Why not stick to one ideology Raven? It’s tough to keep up with the left-wing pro-business republican anti-GAA pro-Celtic anti-Celtic personality.

  1. SF aren’t pro-business, stop being such a fool.
  2. Norway have a left-wing coalition government (with a centrist party) for the last 2 years. Before then they had a Christian Democrat - Conservative coalition. This is alongside their monarchy. How exactly is that left wing? Some advice Raven - if you don’t know about something don’t post about it.

I think you are being very harsh on Mary Lou. Why do you consider her a career politician? Because she had the courage to go against family tradition and leave FF shows to me that she has principles. I think Sinn Fein would bring about positive changes to Irish society but am not certain.
FF posters about people being on Bertie’s team already show how they are trying to make it presedential. Kenny has done well so far on this campaign though and seems to be able to engage with people well one to one which is crucial for campaigning. I am not sure if it would be a good or bad thing for allegations about Bertie to emerge from Mahon tribunal. What do others think?

It was nice thanks.

I’m not being harsh on Mary Lou at all - I couldn’t care less whether she is a career politican or not. Raven made the point that SF have no career politicians when that’s clearly not the case. I don’t see the problem personally in somebody entering politics as a career.

Only reading up properly on the Mahon Tribunal stuff now so don’t know enough to say for sure now. I’d have thought that he was worried about what was coming out though so he just started the campaign in a hurry knowing the tribunal would be compelled to stop. The Celia story on the front of the Irish Times can’t help him either.

Finally while FF are trying to make the election presidential I think they’ve erred in having Bertie on every poster with just the local candidates’ names underneath. A lot of people are very particular about voting for a local politician (e.g. Mullingar not Athlone) and the branding of them all as Bertie’s team might hurt.

Why do you suspect Mary Lou might be a career politician? To be honest I can’t think of anyone in SF who I would consider a career politician so I would be with Raven on that score. They enter politics for other reasons.
What is the story on the front of the Irish Times? I really think Bertie deserves to be attacked but I fear could do more harm than good. Regardless of what spin doctors/communication companies say I would like to see opposition have a go at Bertie if questions need to be answered which they clearly do.

She joined Fianna Fil then changed her mind and joined Sinn Fin. She has run in different constituencies in the last 2 elections. As I said I’ve no problem with that. She wants to be a politician. I’d prefer that to any old fool who inherits their seat from their father because that’s the family way. Why is it a criticism that somebody enters politics to be a politician?

The story in the Irish Times is from the Mahon tribunal about the cash donation to Celia.

Taoiseach’s ex-partner was given 30,000stg by Wall

Colm Keena, Public Affairs Correspondent

Businessman Michael Wall gave 30,000stg in cash to the Taoiseach’s then partner Celia Larkin in December 1994, the Mahon tribunal has been told.

The money was placed by Ms Larkin in an account in her name and was used to fund work on a house in Drumcondra owned at the time by Mr Wall and being rented by Bertie Ahern, the tribunal has been informed. Mr Ahern later purchased the house in 1997.

Information about the matter has been given to the tribunal by Mr Wall, Ms Larkin and Mr Ahern, The Irish Times has confirmed.

The tribunal has examined Mr Ahern’s finances as part of its inquiries into an allegation that property developer Owen O’Callaghan gave money to Mr Ahern in the early 1990s as part of the Quarryvale project. Mr Ahern and Mr O’Callaghan have said the allegation is untrue.

The 30,000stg transaction involving Mr Wall was not mentioned publicly in October of last year by Mr Ahern during the so-called Bertiegate controversy.

The tribunal has posted the witnesses it intends calling during the Quarryvale module on its website. The list indicates the tribunal intends hearing evidence about the payments Mr Ahern has said he was given in 1993-1994.

Asked for a comment on the 30,000stg payment from Mr Wall, a spokeswoman for Mr Ahern said he had no comment other than to say he had co-operated fully with the tribunal.

“The Taoiseach did not seek any monies, he received no monies, nor was he offered any monies from Mr O’Callaghan or by anybody connected with him,” she said. “He never received money in connection with any tax designation for Quarryvale or anywhere else.”

There was no comment from Mr Wall, who was not at home yesterday, and Ms Larkin when contacted said she did not wish to speak to The Irish Times, and hung up the phone.

The tribunal has also been told Mr Wall made a will in 1996 in which he left the Drumcondra house to Mr Ahern in the event of his, Mr Wall’s, death. Mr Ahern has told the tribunal he knew nothing of this at the time.

Will the schools be off then?? Please say they will! They were a few years ago…

Not sure. Think it depends what school you go to, tiger. It’d help if your school is a polling station though.


And you think Sinn Fin have more people looking to improve others’ lives than the Green Party or the Socialist Party for example? Utter nonsense.

Mary Lou McDonald is in politics for a career.

There’s not a single person in the Green Party or the Socialist Party who’s in it for the money. Sinn Fin are a money-making machine. The greens and the socialists don’t accept donations. There’s your difference if you’re looking for one.

I’m continuing to ignore your crap about the Green Party and Dublin 4 because it’s just that. And your efforts at winding me up about the Green Party are in vain. I’m not voting Green.

Good to see you’re as true to left-wing socialism as Sinn Fin are with your acceptance of donations. If Sinn Fin weren’t taking in so much cash they’d be massively against accepting donations because it goes against everything they claim to stand for.

Are you familiar with the tribunals at all Raven? Are you aware of the corruption in this country and the connections between Fianna Fil and the construction industry? Have you ever read about how Yeltsin secured his second term in office in and sold Russia’s resources in exchange for campaign donations? Have you seen how undemocratic the process is in the Unites States when a presidential election campaign costs $500 million? Do you know about the cash for honours controversy in the UK where political donations secured titles and roles for donors?

You cannot have a fair democracy and allow political campaign donations. It removes any transparency. Accountability and responsibility shifts from representing public to private interest. In short it dilutes democracy.

Thought you’d ignore the actual point alright. Good man.

Nothing better to do today on the Luas home but to count how many Bertie Ahern posters I could count between the Red Cow and Blackhorse. Counted 31 of him and there was about maybe 5 each of the actual canidates Sean Ardagh and Michael Mulcahy. Sinn Fein candidate Aengus Snodaigh was probbably 2nd in the poster count. ;D

Power doesn’t corrupt eh? What sort of naive world are you living in Raven?

Donations do not corrupt politicians. So you’d be happy for developers and construction moguls to donate to politicians and councillors. You’d have no objection to a television channel donating money to a political party. You don’t think that causes a conflict of interests?

The sad thing about this is that everything that SF purport to stand for would suggest they should be against political donations. All the other left parties they align themselves with socially are against it. But SF earn far too much money to hold a principled stance so they’re happy to sell out on it.

I didn’t say that power always corrupts - I said it corrupts. So it has the habit of corrupting. If you don’t believe that then you’re ignorant.

Sinn Fin accept donations in a clear and accountable manner do they? And I’m insulting your intelligence?

I never said that anybody who donates money to a political party does so in the hope of a favour. I just said that it has the enormous risk of jeopardising political accountability to the public. Only a fool can’t see that. And only the deeply ignorant choose not to see that.

Money I’ve put in buckets in pubs in Glasgow.