Re: Liverpool FC and the Orange Order


#1

what was the point of this post? was it yet another chance to have a pop at liverpool or should i say ‘epl’ fans? the argument about supporting british/english/irish clubs is getting tiresome now. no matter what u, bandage, rock, or anyone else for that matter say, celtic are a scottish club (with strong Irish connections), which makes them a british club and any argument otherwise is flawed!! but who cares??? y does everything on this forum have to be made into a political issue? i support liverpool but am still a celtic fan and i’m wexford and Irish through and through. wat does it matter what soccer club i support?! in my opinion sport is sport, and thats that!!

no doubt i will be ‘put in place’ by somebody in relation to this, but if it’s a successful forum that the powers that be are trying to promote then they will know that all opinions are welcome.


The Chelsea thread
#2

Here here stevie. Simple and to the point. :smoke:


#3

[quote=stevie G ]

[quote=thepiedpiper ]

celtic are a scottish club (with strong Irish connections)

they are actually an Irish club playing in Scotland Stevie.

I had uncles and aunts who had to emigrate to England - would you class them as English (with strong Irish connections) or would you still class them as Irish ?


#4

we all know what you think of the “British Hoops” Raven !!!


#5

what was the point of this post? was it yet another chance to have a pop at liverpool or should i say ‘epl’ fans? the argument about supporting british/english/irish clubs is getting tiresome now. no matter what u, bandage, rock, or anyone else for that matter say, celtic are a scottish club (with strong Irish connections), which makes them a british club and any argument otherwise is flawed!! but who cares??? y does everything on this forum have to be made into a political issue? i support liverpool but am still a celtic fan and i’m wexford and Irish through and through. wat does it matter what soccer club i support?! in my opinion sport is sport, and thats that!!

no doubt i will be ‘put in place’ by somebody in relation to this, but if it’s a successful forum that the powers that be are trying to promote then they will know that all opinions are welcome.

I agree with most of that. Celtic are based in Scotland, Liverpool in England. Celtic obviously have far more of an Irish identity but if you choose to be Liverpool fan (essentially because you’ve more exposure to the EPL from an early age) then I’ve no problem with that.

The point about Liverpool’s roots is irrelevant really. I don’t support Hibs. Plenty of clubs change their identity along the way - Athletico Madrid were originally setup by Basques to be a sort of Atheltic Bilbao for the capital city. They’ve obviously long since changed into something else and their fanbase has nothing to do with the Basque Country anymore.

Having said all that if Liverpool do still have an Orange Lodge at their stadium then that’s unforgiveable. Really doubt it’s true though.


#6

I thought that’s how the PLC defined the club in this new charter or whatever. Just because some suit says so doesn’t mean it’s correct and I think the majority of Celtic supporters would disagree with that definition. Much like I presume ManU supporters would take a Glazer statement with a pinch of salt too or indeed most core supporters of any team do with boardroom statements. But it’s hardly something to lose sleep over.

I don’t care who people support - it’s their personal choice. I did post a few weeks back cos I was pi$$ed off with the 3rd Liverpool supporter in about a week having a go at me about Celtic’s ‘plastic’ Irish identity. Just thought it was a tad ironic.


#7

i take it this is the question about which you have been bugging me by email Raven - the answer to which I couldn’t tell you.

Are you trying to give it the whole “i know more about Celtic than you” or what ??

It is obvious you have taken exception to my “British Hoops” comment. There are hundreds of thousands of Celtic fans in Ireland and there are only 2 that I know of that refer to the club as “The British Hoops” - you and The Croppy (not Rock and Piper by the way)…did you not use this term on the Thomas Davis thread yesterday ?

Get off your high horse !!!


Edited to include The Croppy’s username instead of real name


#8

i was giving information about liverpool’s roots. i was also asking do they still have an orange lodge at anfield? why do you support celtic as a matter of interest? was it purely by chance because you liked the style of football they play?


#9

He has already answered that question Piper. It’s a fair enough question about whether there’s still an Orange Lodge at Anfield. I’d be shocked if there was but I’d like to know. The stuff about why he supports Liverpool. I think Farmer, Stevie G, Gerrardno1, Flano etc. have all answered this question at this stage.


#10

Not quite true Raven. I believe our first meeting was up in the P.S.L.C (which disgustingly has “Home of the Premiership” posters outside it ) when myself and Rock’s German based friend’s father were settling down to watch Celtic take on Greenock Morton in a Scottish Cup 3rd Round tie when you asked if you could join us - we were the only 3 in the bar.


#11

Lads wtf is going on here? Im feeling uncomfortable. BANTER!


#12

i am out for tolka tonight raven


#13

Yeah I know rock I was just answering his original question. Common courtesy.


#14

as a matter of interest would the liverpool fans be comftorbale supporting them if the orange lodge was still at anfield?


#15

Celtic are almost unique though in that though they are based in Scotland their identity is Irish. The tradition and culture of the club is all about Irishness and the struggles we have had as a country. The supporters who travel over from Ireland and those who due to economic circumstances were born in Scotland hold these beliefs at the centre of the club. This makes them Irish and not Scottish in my opinion.


#16

I agree with that Piper. That’s not the issue though. The more you ask why people support Liverpool the more they’ll reply that Celtic are a British club. So if you don’t separate Liverpool from their Englishness they won’t separate Celtic from their Scottishness.

Obviously Celtic are unique in having an obvious Irish heritage (in England and Scotland anyway - there are plenty of other immigrant clubs in other countries) but I don’t think Liverpool have a particularly English identity.


#17

Well if they are foolish enough to believe such a thing who cares? Comparison between Celtic’s Scotishness and Liverpool’s Enlgishness doesn’t hold as Liverpool have no other identity to any other country apart from the country which they are based whereas Celtic do.


#18

So if I told you that I liked St Pauli would you ask why I had affections for a German team despite having nothing to do with Germany? Or would you concede that some teams are from a country and represent that country with their identity (Chelsea and England, Rangers and Britain, Real Madrid and Spain) and some clubs have an identity that really has more about their home city and their supporters than their country(Barcelona, Celtic etc.).


#19

I would say Celtic represent the Irish Identity. I would concede that Liverpool’s English identity is not as strong as Celtic’s Irish identity.


#20

doubt there is one, but if there was I would look at whether this lodge represented the general consensus of the fanbase of liverpoolfc. Ive been over there a few times now and ive never experienced any anti-irishness, so even if there was a lodge i would imagine it would be frequented by a small minority who dont really represent liverpool fans. I would be disgusted and very disapointed but i would find it very hard to turn my back on 15 years of support for one team just because of a small minority of bigots.

However if it turned out that it represented a lot of the beliefs of liverpool fans then i wouldnt support them. Same as if for some reason i was brought up to support rangers and i found out their bigoted and anti-irish views than i would have to stop supporting them.

I agree with rocko when he wonders why people are questioned for supporting a team in a different country that have no obvious Irish connection. I mean, just because Liverpool have no obviuos irish connections and they are based in england, does that imply that they are anti-irish? Or is it the fact that they are an english club and you are disgusted that an irishman can support an english club?

2 years ago liverpool fans were seen burning gerrards english shirt when they thought that he was going to leave. They werent prepared to burn a liverpool shirt but were prepared to burn an english shirt. Could you imagine chelsea fans doing the same thing? I couldnt.