Russia Vs Ukraine (Part 1)

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Shell and BP are snakey cunts. Wouldnt expect less from big oil.

British Persia always had an issue with regime changes

That is heartbreaking

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Groan. We will continue to stand idly by as Ukrainians are slaughtered in their droves by Russian Nazis.

Reports that Zelensky has had a rethink Re joining NATO and prepared to let contested areas go. Looking for guarantees on any future attack.

May be basis for negotiations on end to the fighting.

I wonder could he use the fact NATO refused to enforce the no fly zone as cover for the decision? It sets a very dangerous marker though

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Extremely dangerous. The invader wins and the wheels of commerce get trundling again.
The shape of things to come.

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It’s impossible to see exactly how this ends, but I think it’s highly unlikely that there’s an ending where a combination of sanctions pressure and Ukraine resistance defeats Russia, Russia withdraws from Ukraine and it’s as you were with Ukraine territorial integrity intact and Ukraine can join NATO if it wants.

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Nato was obviously a stupid idea, he’d probably be delighted with eu membership-if that could be part of a settlement…and there was a compromise there to be had on the contested areas years ago…a sunningdale for slow learners type scenario. Now putin has to have some sort of a win to go along with some ongoing sanctions, just to make sure he learns some sort of a lesson

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Anything short of full Ukrainian territorial integrity, the right to make their own alliances, and the overthrow of Putin and his regime and them facing the rest of their lives in cells in The Hague is a fool’s game.

20 years of supposed “low risk” policy and listening to self styled “adults” who were actually fools like Mearsheimer got us to here.

Any more of it and the rest of Europe can say bye bye to free societies.

I find this absolutely remarkable. Putin must be laughing.

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If this was 100 years ago, you’d have a rake of countries already weighing in with force. I can get that nobody wants something bigger to kick off, but at the same time, it’s leaving Ukraine get pummeled for the sake of an auld holiday abroad for the rest of us this summer.

I heard the Klitchkos on BBC yesterday and they summed it up. Putin needs to be taken down from within. The Russian protests against the war are well and good, but there needs to more than a few thousand on the streets, there needs to be 20/30,000 or more on the streets in Russia. An uprising.

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Lads forget the Cold War

The ideal was to live free in the West

If not possible then live in a Soviet vassal state

That was preferable to living in a nuclear wasteland and dying of starvation or thirst

Russia military power in a conventional war has been shown, as many predicted, to be much weaker than US and NATO equipment and weaponry. In a conventional war Russia would be roundly defeated.

But Russia are a nuclear power and lads who were afraid of a virus with a 99.6% survival rate but now advocating running the risk of nuclear weapons being used which have a survival rate quite a bit less than Covid are not to be taken seriously.

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And then launches into highly likely unqualified theory

I love this place :laughing:

Ah. Regime change,that should work, uncle Sam is your man for that job. Look at how in worked out in…say…Ukraine for example

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Well, without US interference obviously. The USA has a lot to answer for here as well. Or “the west”.

whats the significance of this?

But the principle remains the same. We cant let anyone die of covid even if it means killing more people than would have died of covid. Sure we could save Ukraine from being overrun with russians if everyone died in a nuclear holocaust