Mick is some bollix
This thread is a fair filleting of the British government
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Brillan reporting.
Absolutely gut wrenching reading. Everytime I see cunts posting pro Putin/Trump manure I think of 18 month old Kirill, murdered by cowardly fascists.
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Yeah but balance, two sides to this. And Syria and Palestine.
Or something, something.
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You had no interest when it was Ukrainian neo nazis going around doing the brutalizing. Wasn’t enough outrage in it for you?
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People who point out that there is a difference between the societal reactions to Ukrainian refugees and Syrian, Afghan, Yemeni, African refugees etc. have a point, but it seems to me that some people are making the point in a transparently cynical and negative way so as to prevent something positive being done for Ukrainian refugees rather encourage more positive things to be done for all refugees. Frequently people who frame this point in a cynical, negative manner use straw men in order to drag everything down into a vortex of cynicism and accusations of “hypocrisy”. It’s a dead giveaway they don’t really care about anything to do with refugees.
People who point out the difference in the reaction in terms of sanctions to Russia and, say, Israel or Saudi Arabia or China, have a point, but again, it seems to me that there are some people who frame their point in such a way as to try and protect Russia rather than advocate for a higher moral standard across the board. We have some prize examples here.
On Channel 4 News on Tuesday, Lord Dubs – who is a fucking great man by the way - framed the positive, welcoming reaction toward Ukrainian refugees in Europe as extremely heartening, while acknowledging that it raised issues in terms of differences in societal attitude towards refugees from other conflicts.
https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1503824610932019200
On the programme that followed, a studio audience discussion, there was a woman who made what was at its heart a similar point but framed it in a very negative fashion. Watching her make her point would have elicited a reflex negative response from a lot of people watching.
Not all people who make the point in a negative fashion are doing so to encourage resentment against Ukrainian refugees or to try and protect Russia, and I’m sure this wasn’t the aim of this particular woman – but the framing was negative – and this sort of framing only ends up fostering division.
It’s at 28:40 here.
But some do use negative framing in an attempt to deliberately foster division and protect Russia. Mick Wallace and Clare Daly are plainly supporters of Russia and supporters of Assad. And they do not care one jot about, say, Syrian refugees. They support the regimes which made people flee Syria, for Christ’s sake! The regimes which butchered Syrians. What have they got to offer Syrian refugees who have fled Assad’s regime?
As regards what Lord Dubs said and the differences in societal attitudes between Ukrainian refugees and other refugees, yes, there probably is a race element. There’s not much point in shying away from that. But it isn’t the only factor.
There is a visibility element and a people like us element. There will always be a people like us element. If somebody from the same town is a victim, it will hit home more than if somebody from the next town is a victim.
If somebody from your county is a victim, it will hit home more than if it’s somebody from the next county.
If somebody from your country is a victim, it will hit home more than if it’s somebody from the next country.
Same with continent and language etc. We probably do relate to Ukrainians more than, say Syrians, because they are a European country. But there is and should be a common humanity for all peoples when they suffer.
But there is also a justice element and a basic understanding element. We understand that morally this conflict is black and white. Russia has declared war on Ukraine for no reason and is destroying Ukraine and Ukrainian lives. It could not be more simple to understand.
The truth is we as a society mostly don’t understand these other conflicts. Like if you went down to Shop Street or Henry Street and asked people to briefly explain the war in Syria or the war in Yemen or the war in Afghanistan, very few would be able to. But we all understand what is happening in Ukraine. The echoes of the Nazis invading Poland in 1939 are clear. Same as we all understood that the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa was clear cut in moral terms.
That used not be the case as regards Ukraine. In 2014 Ukraine was itself a victim of a sort of innocently racist ignorance, in that many people in the west probably thought that “Ukraine is really part of Russia anyway, isn’t it, shure let the Russians have Crimea”. But that was wrong and we all know now, or should know, it was wrong.
I think the key point Lord Dubs was trying to make, and I totally agree with him, is that we in the west are showing moral urgency as regards this conflict. And that that is good. But what we also need to do is focus on what is being done correctly as regards the current response, and let it inform our responses to other conflicts – as opposed to saying “oh, we didn’t do this before, so we shouldn’t do it now, or get sucked into that vortex of negativity that trades under pointing out so called “hypocrisy”. You can never get anywhere like that. Or by just treating the response to this as a one off.
But it should not be good enough for, say, Israel to bomb the shit out of Gaza and just get away with it. Because it’s fucking evil. Our response to what Russia is doing shows that the west can understand these things when it puts its mind to it. It just needs to do it a hell of a lot more.
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You’re bang on kid.
People in Ireland flocking to let Ukrainians into their house because they’re white, that’s about the size of it. Brown people and Muslims need not apply.
You called covid 100% and you’re out in front here again
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How the Ukrainians and polish treated black and Indian students fleeing the crisis is one of the most shameful things of what’s happened so far… Just like you ignored Nazi brutality in Ukraine, you’re happy to sweep this under the carpet also.
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Go away you fucking fool
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You’re denying it even tho it’s been well documented? You live in Poland you gee bag - you’d swear you were on the front line with @Cheasty with the carryon of you.
He’s swinging for the fences
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This is well worth a listen. It shares a few ideas about why we’ve becone so reactionary, intolerant and uniform in our thinking. When did we arrive at the point where it is only permissible to hold one thought in our heads, and where it is necessary to censor, condemn and attack anyone who doesn’t share the same exact viewpoint. Seemingly it is now an outrageous impossibility to believe both that the invasion was a senseless unforgivable war crime and an almost inevitable consequence of foolhardy aggressive and mendacious foreign policy.
For those who spit feathers at any of this they’ll be relieved to know that they can now do a google search of Russell Brand and find an article describing him as alt-right, facist or middle-aged and white.
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This is the same chap that called for a war of extermination against NI Protestants.
I’d say he will de-platformed soon from youtube. He trys to stay as neutral as he can to be fair.
His videos lately are decent in fairness.
One below here is very interesting as well.
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What do Matt Le Tissier, Paul Merson and Mr. Blobby think?
All over Chantry House
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A few years ago id have dismissed him as a pretentious hipster fullbof the sound of his own voice. Now i think hes a jumble of personal struggles, eagerness to learn, celebrity, honesty, optimism, curiosity and openness. Hes a great lad and i think its fair to say that hed be a great addition to the forum
That said i wish hed stop doing the silly voices.
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Anyone who needs to proclaim how charitable and good they are on social media - including TFK are not to be trusted in my opinion.
Go on about your business ffs.
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