Russia Vs Ukraine (Part 1)

Do you not agree that a large portion of the Ukrainian population wanted to join the EU as opposed to aligning with Putin/Russia?

The Demonstrations in 2014 which saw Putins puppet scurry off into hiding proved that clearly.

The Ukrainian civilians are willing to die to defend their right to exist.

You seem to think that mindset is wrong?

I absolutely abhor the American political system and the dirty scumbags that infiltrate it.

Why do you think they are so invested in this war?

You could do your own bit to make the world a little less dangerous by never turning on a computer ever again.

I’d imagine he sees no future for his Country under the thumb of a Dictator, history is probably on his side in that decision.

Trump leaning on him to get at Biden probably sharpened his resolve for what Putin had in store for him.

Money.

Putin is in it for a legacy which is probably worse.

Two superpowers competing for the worlds dwindling resources and millions of innocents caught in the firing line.

“In your opinion”

You’re reading Tankie Twitter, who have taken John Mearsheimer clips on as their standard bearer.

This idea that NATO are at fault is HILARIOUS. NATO is a collection of countries and don’t speak for the same hymn sheet always, see Iraq for your prime example. In the case of the admission of the likes of Ukraine and Georgia there are absolutely countries that would have wanted them in, but there are others who didn’t (because of Russia and other reasons). And they aren’t in. It was put on the shelf. The real problem is that these countries have are democratic ones and they push for admission. In the world of John Mearsheimer there are a few great powers and they tell everyone else what to do.

The “deal” you trumpet was for Ukraine to continue to surrender their sovereignty to Russia in perpetuity. On the one hand you blame NATO and the US (“US Imperialism” :rofl:) but on the other just want to wave on through classic Russian Imperialism.

Do you not read and listen to others to form you opinion?

He got into power on the premise than he would negotiate a deal for relations with the EU. This placated those who wanted to join the EU and those who wanted to stay close to Russia. Then Vlad got involved.

Again, if you read certain media stories here you can be swayed quiet easily in either direction on that idea.

Personally, the idea that NATO is trying to provoke Russia while Germany is militarily weak and France/Britain in far from Political paradise is a strange sale.

All of above allied to Trumps meteoric rise to power in the US probably enabled Putin into flexing his muscles to the degree he felt confident to make this move on Ukraine.

America, The EU, China & Russia all want to be King Dick.
While instability grew in American politics and the EU were perceived as weak it was always a fear that Putin could do as he pleased.

God forbid if Ukraine had been turned over.

Provocative violent actions have been from Russia, to say otherwise is a stretch imo.

I’m not sure what you mean here. I didn’t trumpet any deal.

We’ll agree to differ but I appreciate you ability to discuss the matter in a mature manner.

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We’re lucky we can talk/chat like this mate. If were living in Russia we wouldn’t have an open media or outside source of information to form opposite opinions at all.

I do but this is classic Tankie bullshit, it’s appealing to contrarians right now.

Anyone who states with a straight face that they blame the US and NATO here is drinking the Kremlin propaganda train.

Look back on 2008 and Georgia/Ukraine seriously. Yes some NATO members wanted them in. Some didn’t. And you had an almighty fudge, with Putin enjoying a defacto veto over it.

Why are we pretending that organisations like NATO and the EU are of one mind? They are a collection of sovereign states. I’ve read a few Tankies laughably claim the same bullshit of “USA/NATO invaded Iraq!” when key NATO members repudiated it. Looks at the 1960s and France’s withdrawal. Trump fucking hated NATO and weakened it immeasurably. Yet we are supposed to all sit here and pretend there was some grand plan, through multiple democratically elected leaders in multiple NATO countries…?

Who was sitting on the other side? A fella that put his mate in charge for a few years because of constitutional inconveniences and is a veritable gangster. The same fella who said he doesn’t believe in Ukraine society. And yet….

This is not what I said.

But it is the implication…it is Tankie 101

US and NATO said interchangeably. You said two things that fit right into that wheelhouse;

Sorry but putting NATO and the US together is a dead giveaway - this is straight from Russia as they do not want Ukraine in NATO so create this idea of US imperialism. I’ve already pointed out that this idea that NATO are one body and mind is laughable. Sure one NATO member was blocking weapons getting brought in by another NATO at the outset of all this!

No it’s not. Where did I imply China & Russia weren’t imperialists. That couldn’t be further from the truth. But you know that, it’s just easier for you this way.
As regards the US & NATO, they are together on this matter, both funding and arming the Ukraine to fight their proxy war.

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So they aren’t imperialist but your line here was;

Zelensky…puppet
NATO=USA

Hello Kremlin propaganda.