Sinn Fein - Populism and Partionism

[anon98850436]

@Cheasty

The “left wing party” that’s against property tax

Incorrect. They are against the family home tax.

They would still tax additional properties be them holiday homes or rental properties. They also propose increasing stamp duty on commercial property.

[tallback]

@glasagusban

Yeah a doctor mate says that’s an effect alright. Also says consultants will be very driven by money. But of course, if you allow a system to be held to ransom like that, you won’t ever do anything.

I don’t disagree. Interesting the level of opposition to the contract though from some of the consultants whose public persona would be quite left-leaning e.g. Anthony O’Connor and others.

Part of the problem seems to be that only the new consultants will be put on the contract. Like large chunks of the public sector - the guys on the existing conditions etc aren’t touched - which automatically causes problems.

Anyway, it’s just an example of the deeply vested and conflicting interests in health and housing in particular and how the devil is in the detail.

Something similar in housing with many intertwined vested interests. People are furious about the housing situation which is understandable but I’m often curious what the political fall-out would be if and when house prices start to fall significantly (which is surely a feature not a bug of most of the housing policies being pursued). People in the 2000’s thought house prices were stupid high and should come down but most who managed to buy a house weren’t that fussed when that actually happened.

[tallback]

@anon98850436

Incorrect. They are against the family home tax.

Run me through how the family home isn’t property

[TheUlteriorMotive]

The CGT exemption is also hard to defend as a tax relief.

[TheUlteriorMotive]

Be interesting when people in public system can’t access the “best” doctors and they are in private system only.

House prices one will cause issues for anybody who ends up in negative equity - anybody buying a house now is mad given all the chat and policy aimed at reducing prices. If you were very brave and confident of your marriage you’d sell and rent now.

[glasagusban]

@tallback

when house prices start to fall significantly

They probably never will, the will moderate over time as the problem resolves. And anyway, there is no real loss in that for people.

[farmerinthecity]

I think he’s suggesting that everyone needs to live somewhere and people shouldn’t be taxed on their home. Investment properties are fair game.

[farmerinthecity]

Principle Private Residence?

Why is that hard to defend?

[TheUlteriorMotive]

Not sure why people should enjoy windfall gains tax free on any asset.

It might encourages home ownership as an investment rather than a utility.

[farmerinthecity]

The way I look at it is that the ordinary person is taxed well enough so a relief in relation to their family home is to be welcomed.

Denis O’Brien of course failed to pay CGT on the sale of Esat Digifone. That of course is the much bigger issue.

[farmerinthecity]

One of the biggest problems I see in the health service is quite simple.

The health service needs quality consultants more than quality consultants need the health service,

As a result they are an extremely powerful group and can cause the health service to be run as they want it. It’s not a criticism it’s just the way it is,

[tallback]

@farmerinthecity

I think he’s suggesting that everyone needs to live somewhere and people shouldn’t be taxed on their home. Investment properties are fair game.

Why?

Lots of wealth created in primary residences - even modest ones. For those who can’t pay the tax could be deferred until the property is sold.

To me it seems to be a version of the usual populist thing where they’re in favour of taxes, just never on large chunks of the electorate.

[tallback]

@farmerinthecity

One of the biggest problems I see in the health service is quite simple.

The health service needs quality consultants more than quality consultants need the health service,

As a result they are an extremely powerful group and can cause the health service to be run as they want it. It’s not a criticism it’s just the way it is,

I’d tend to agree. Very few political parties seem willing to try and sell that though

[Fulvio_From_Aughnacloy]

Surely the biggest problem is the public health system in the Free State is a basket case.

[farmerinthecity]

Also the HSE is far too wide in terms of scope and general efficiencies in management. Varadkar said when he was Minister for Health that their systems had difficulty determining how much money was given to Vincent’s Hospital (for example) in a year. Come on!

[glasagusban]

@tallback

For those who can’t pay the tax could be deferred until the property is sold.

That’s a good point actually that would make it more fair.

[Juhniallio]

Eh… is this not the case already? Certainly seems to be.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/ga/money_and_tax/tax/housing_taxes_and_reliefs/deferring_local_property_tax.html

[StoneCold]

The Centre Right parties that favour property tax?

[Fulvio_From_Aughnacloy]

I agree with the philosophy behind the property tax but the system in place presently seems to be open to manipulation.

The big problem the current govt have in taxes is where, it goes. Larry Goodman being overpaid 10m by a govt dept and them making no effort to seek it back will tell you all you need to know about FFG’s approach to public money.

[tallback]

@StoneCold

The Centre Right parties that favour property tax?

FG and FF do. I don’t think they love them but they recognise that a broad-based property tax is required.

It’s a topsy turvy world alright.