Nope, the abortion and particularly the marriage referenda were slam dunks regardless.
Your opinion. An opinion that is largely driven by over the top, highly emotional, highly divisive rhetoric.
Bruton used half his air time to have a go at SF, where is that sensible and aiding cohesion? His remarks about not being ready are fair enough … But you can never separate Bruton from his past comments about the union and commenwealth , in the same way up the ra won’t let SF escape their past … Bruton is best ignored.
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Bang on. We are at least a generation away from having a reasonable conversation about it.
I think we can have a meaningful conversation about it, or anything, any time we want…
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Nope.
It’s fact.
Bruton said the same thing that he did 30 years ago. He was an obstacle to the peace process, he wanted the status quo to continue where natioanlists were second class citizens in the north, he now undermines the terms of the GFA.
You think he speaks sensibly which says a lot about your viewpoints. You’ll get an opinion piece in the Indo at this rate. As we know journalists have little moral integrity though.
They weren’t at the start, very far from it. They ended up that way because they brought the widest spectrum of politics possible into the Yes campaigns, because they were framed through positive, generous, inclusive language.
The change to the 8th Amendment, which would have been assumed to be the more divisive proposal and the one with a higher chance of losing, won by a bigger margin than the Yes campaign in the marriage referendum. Why? Because the campaign learned what works.
There are huge lessons here for any future Yes campaign on unification.
There you go.
You say his remarks are “fair enough”. It’s best not to ignore them so.
Bruton never wants it to be ready.
He doesn’t even want a conversation.
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There’s no point in polling people about a United Ireland until people know what a United Ireland might look like. Otherwise you have a rerun of the Brexit shit show. When the time comes there will have been years of consultations and talks and it won’t be put to he vote unless there is a reasonable prospect of victory. Just like the GFA.
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That would be why he took part in the conversation, so.
To argue against it.
Just like Micheal Martin.
Did Bruton contribute to the discussion or just rule it out.
He ruled it out.
He’s not the only one espousing such views…a dog with a mallet up his hole knows we’re no where near a border poll…Like John, you’re speaking out both sides of your mouth here.
Gas that this thread is getting far more posts than the thread on the current Celtic v Rangers match
But we’re never going to know exactly what a hypothetical united Ireland will look like until it happens. That’s just the nature of the issue. By definition it is a nebulous prospect and the more meat on the bones you try to put on it, the less chance it has of being voted for.
So you agree with John Bruton. That’s speaking out both sides of your mouth.
Yep, that’s fair comment. I just think that north of the border there is still too wide a gap between the hardliners on both sides for it to work with the next decade. That being said that gap is very slowly closing. Brexit certainly made it more of a possibility and the initial British reaction to covid made it even more so of a possibility. However their vaccine role out brought it back again.
Be interesting to see what way the election goes up there next month. The new leader of the DUP will also make it interesting.
Bruton said NI was not ready for a border poll. Which is what Oisin McConville said. I think Oisin went further actually and said “we’re not near ready”. @Thomas_Brady agrees.
Where is this idea that SF IRA appealing to more young voters in the South is advancing a UI? I doubt the percentages have changed that much in the last generation. Substituting Celtic mysticism and a socialist 32 with modern day Irish Simpsons Fans meme lords is not advancing anything. A few Ógra SF types in the SU library making “Brits are at it again”/“Fuck FFG” to appeal to disaffected millennials who just want a gaff down down just continues to damage the pitch. SF IRA remain an impediment to a UI and the recent trend of Brit bashing is regressive to the cause. John Briton is correct to point out that Ireland is not ready for it, grossly immature.
The likes of Fulvio believe in a 50+1 approach but the numbers just aren’t there, a % of Unionists will have to be convinced in the north still with all the comfortable Catholics. The SF IRA brand remains toxic to them.
A UI will be helped along with the Scottish leave the Union for sure, but it won’t be SF IRA helping anything.
Despite how reasonable this might sound history doesn’t bear it out. The marriage referendum isn’t a comparable example at all. The only comparable example is the vote on the GFA. The SDLP had been talking peace for years but it was only when SF came on board that nationalists trusted the process. Similarly the Unionists went along with it because they were led by Trimble who had served his time on the Garvaghy Road and the PUP and the UVF bought into the process.
Down South it was the then Republican Party Fianna Fáil who drove the process. The process went completely off the rails when Bruton was in power.
Ultimately it was the involvement of people from the extremes that brought that process over the line not the centrists.
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