Yet you’re advocating for the party with the biggest political representation on this island to step aside from the discussion? A great example of the type of democracy you want on this island right there.
A completely different kettle of fish when it comes to UI.
Not true. We knew exactly what a GFA would look like before we voted on it.
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SF weren’t fully on board with the Good Friday Agreement as of May 22nd, 1998. The Government of the Republic of Ireland was, almost all mainstream opinion in the Republic of Ireland was, the DUP were against it, and that’s why it romped home 90-10 or 95-5 or whatever it was.
Anybody who entertains the slightest doubt about whether a border poll in the Republic would pass really shouldn’t be entertaining the prospect of the much harder to win northern border poll.
Winning a vote in the Republic is the easy part, and it would be easy, as long as the campaign is sensible about how it goes about its business.
Lads who laughed at the Brits voting for Brexit without knowing what Brexit means now advocating a vote for a UI without knowing what that would look like.
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The Good Friday Agreement was not a united Ireland. Because X happened does not imply Y.
I’m suggesting that the biggest impediments to winning over mainstream middle ground opinion in both the south and north are loose lipped members of Sinn Fein and rabble rousing by Sinn Fein supporters in general. Why? Because they would make the prospect of any sort of unification appear deeply threatening and nationalist in the worst sense of the word, rather than generous and inclusive and Republican in the best sense of that word. The word Republic is supposed to imply inclusiveness.
Neale Richmond and Heather Humphreys, whatever you think of them, do not come across as threatening in a nationalistic sense, they come across as extremely unthreatening and mainstream, and particularly to the sort of middle ground soft unionists you’d be hoping to win over in the north. Which is why you want them leading your campaign in the south. How the southern campaign is run will affect the dynamic of the northern one.
In the north, unionists will vote for the union. It’s what they are about.
The moderates will vote on the merits of the argument.
Nationalists/republicans will vote for a UI.
The partitionist parties of FF/FG and MSM are aligned on the one page, the status quo must remain ergo partition must stay. Thankfully their grip on the free state is waning with every passing year. I’d be very surprised if a UI referendum is not called within the next 10 yeas so it’s vital that this discussion takes place and plans are laid out as to what it will look like.
People can either engage in what a UI will look like or be left behind.
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Gerry Adams is a toxic character, as is the SF brand amongst fence sitters. To claim otherwise is delusional.
Its bizarre that so many proponents of a UI seem to think that he is necessary for the argument. Surely the argument has merit in itself?
When was Ireland last united? Was it ever? Certainly not in the modern sense where all citizens were represented equally with a government of their peers.
So what is this United Ireland shamrocky fantasy about. Ireland was always separate tribes then kingdoms then provinces. What Ulster needs is independence, they won’t be long realising what unites them (contrariness) is stronger than what divides them (a few gripes stuck on the door of a German church)
How is he toxic?
SF went onto become the largest nationalist party in the O6 during his tenure. By and large the younger people down south don’t care about what happened during The Troubles.
1921
Ulster is partitioned.
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So Ireland was united when it was ruled wholly by Britain? Do you want a return to that? Plus in 1921 a sizeable part of the country didn’t consider themselves Irish, so never really United.
Because people who are fence sitters do not like him.
The arguments about the extremes of a political movement convincing people in their own community to vote for the GFA hold no water for a UI.
The pro Union side won’t be wheeling out Boris Johnson for the next Scottish Independence referendum for a reason.
The only reason to hold onto Gerry within SF is a cult like devotion to him but it is only self harming.
It was united. The majority of Ireland didn’t want to live under British rule, the island was then gerrymandered into two states where the Catholic population were subjected to oppressive sectarian regimes and institutional discrimination and violence. I want an end to finally bring an end to that.
Just because Unionists are instransigent to change and equality doesn’t mean their “themmuns” attitude should prevails. It’s not the 1950s any more.
The bottom line is, it doesn’t matter what the people who are utterly reticent to a UI think. The momentum is there, it is building, it will happen and those who don’t want to discuss it leave themselves stuck in the past.
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The majority not wanting to live under British rule means it was united (ignoring of course the very sizeable minority there) on an issue. It doesn’t mean it was a united contiguous self governed country. It never was really unless someone can point out a different time.
Demographics will end the sectarianism in the north. But a United Ireland is a political theory some are attempting to put into practice. It’s not some return to an original state of being.
You keep talking about kids in the south not caring about the troubles. That’s irrelevant. All that is that his party is less toxic down south, he remains a figure of hate amongst a % needed to be won over.
All SF have done down south is usurp Labour and some FF votes. The vast majority of these were UI favourable anyway. 2 out of 3 in the South supporting a UI is actually probably low historically. “Momentum”
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I said I’d no issue with what he said in that regard… It wasn’t ground breaking or unique, I’ve expressed similar views on here for a number of years… I’m glad you’re catching up with the reality of the question but you should be wary of your sources.
What matters is that you are probably in the minority Tim.
Doesn’t matter what you and people like you think anymore. A United Ireland will happen so get on board or snipe from the sidelines.
When is the question