Sensible words, I think. Immigration should be debated – but by the lights of fact, coherence and logic.
The Irish government has been brutal at casting light on what is actually going on. As I tried to sketch, widespread ignorance about the role of REACT-EU ultimately lies at their door. The EU free movement dynamic is there and we signed up to it. The vast majority of people in Ireland are pro EU.
I would like to know what amount of refugees are coming in under a UN rubric. Quite simply, I would like to know about the mechanisms involved. The government-created vacuum is deeply unhelpful from any and all perspectives.
The current conversation is being led by the plethora of information and cases and history in other EU countries who are further down the funnel than we are. Most are u-turning. The belief that Ireland will be different is naive at best and reckless at medium.
If you are deliberately avoiding facts and occurrences then you shouldn’t really be in the conversation as your bias blinds you.
Nobody to my memory protested Polish and Nigerian people coming here to work those years ago. Nobody did. Totally different circumstances than today.
Thank you for being honest as regards not knowing yourself about REACT-EU funding factor. I believe that much of the debate’s heat, if more people were made aware of that body’s role, would lessen.
Yes completely, i need to look into it a bit more but from your brief description, a clever move by the goverment to bring in extra EU funding, they obviously dont want it to be publicly advertised, like a grant for a community group, keep looking for what you can get and dont tell anyone else so the funding keeps coming to you. I was under the impression that the irish tax payer was footing the whole bill but this is not the case. Those that EU funding just cover accommodation and food? Or does it also pay some of the high SW payments that have been highlighted?
EU money into ireland, the government takes a large chunk in tax and leave the multiplier effect increase the economy.
As i said a very interesting angle, as you said the narrative on the topic would be different if it was more well known
1 “they obviously dont want it to be publicly advertised, like a grant for a community group, keep looking for what you can get and dont tell anyone else so the funding keeps coming to you.”: I cannot understand the opacity – but maybe I am being naive, in that dammed water is more powerful, if ultimately released, than constantly flowing water. Which or whether, REACT-EU is providing funding to all EU member states that are taking Ukrainian refugees.
2 “I was under the impression that the irish tax payer was footing the whole bill but this is not the case.”: again, fair play for your honesty, which rebounds badly on the government. The Irish taxpayer is certainly not footing “the whole bill”.
3 “Those that EU funding just cover accommodation and food? Or does it also pay some of the high SW payments that have been highlighted?”: I do not know, as I indicated, even though I have done a good bit of scoping online. We should also remember that a fair amount of SW payments, even if the Irish state is bearing that burden, come back to the state via various taxes. Even so, I would like clarity on the issue.
4 “EU money into ireland, the government takes a large chunk in tax and leave the multiplier effect increase the economy.”: I think that statement, for a layperson like me, is a fair summary.
5 “As i said a very interesting angle, as you said the narrative on the topic would be different if it was more well known”: I think so – and helpfully so.
Its been a while where someone puts up an interesting point on here which changes a viewpoint on a topic, in fairness you have given some food for thought and to go digging, while as you said yourself you don’t have all the answers either. We will return to this i guess.
All those nutjobs are interested in is being heard and don’t let little things like the truth get in the way.
It is not about immigration for them. It’s about stirring up hatred against anything you’ve got.
The way to deal with them is by ignoring them. Don’t give them oxygen,
I’m not sure what the debate is to have on immigration? The amount of emphasis placed on people coming into this country is ridiculous in my view. If we can’t realistically house refugees coming in then something needs to be looked at but that’s for the benefit of refugees more than it is for Ireland.
As I have said before, the irony of Irish people debating immigration given our history is crazy,
A perfect example of when LV could say: ‘As a matter of fact, their accommodation costs are being borne by the REACT-EU fund.’ There must be a reason this line is eschewed.
Wouldn’t be automatically entitled.
I have no major issue with this. UK immigration lawyers at the time were advising UK asylum seekers to try and give birth in Ireland. The statistics at the coombe were way out of line with population norms. There are very few countries now which confer automatic citizenship.on any baby that happens to be born there.
This isn’t exactly true mate, the “unwilling to work” bit. There are plenty of people working who struggle to afford accommodation.
In any case, it has to be debated.
There are only two options
A A completely globally open migration/immigration policy
B Barriers to immigration.
If one believes in any way shape or form that a country has the right to limit immigration in any way at all, then they de facto believe in forced deportation. After that, it’s just a matter of degree. Reaching any kind of reasonable compromise ( which will always be imperfect) is best achieved by taking in multiple viewpoints, otherwise you are at an extreme end of the spectrum where you decry the views of others as having no value because you disagree with them.
There is so little tolerance on either side of this debate, it makes honest discourse impossible.
“Multiculturalism” is meaningless. People are nice, or they aren’t. Society is a pleasant place or it isn’t. Whether there is a mosque or a bookies or a chipshop on the corner is neither here nor there. It depends mainly upon how the folk using that facility behave, not how they talk or dress.
