I thought I was being quite gracious there? What part exactly is embarrassing?
[quote=“Special Olympiakos”]Speak for yourselves lads, i want to hear Fitzys take on it and the general reaction down under. What a strange series really though, not winning in Cardiff proved to be the key moment for me. When you look at the stats its 8-2 to the Aussies in centuries and they have taken more wickets despite all the rubbish been written about their attack. In fact the top 3 wicket takers are all Australian.
England should feel like some millionaire auld lad with a playboy bunny as a wife today. They know without serious extenuating circumstances theres no way this was possible. They must be congratulated on taking advantage of the luck that came their way though and their 1st innings bowling in particular was very good at times. Remarkable though that a middle order devoid of their best South African could win an Ashes series. When you think of the little contribution Bell, Bopara & Collingwood [Cardiff aside] made you have to ask yourself how did they win it?
Maybe its time for Ricky Ponting to step aside? Hes still worth his place as a batsman but some of his bowling choices were strange, not necessarily personnel but his changes in particular. Having Marcus North bowl at the death in what we now know as the crucial juncture of the series defied belief really.[/quote]
Yes, in a few select headline categories the Aussies owned the stats, but look a little deeper.
The Aussies had more centuries, fair enough, but the English tail seriously outscored their opposite numbers and made up for a lot of the differential between top top-orders.
6 of the top 10 scoring batsmen overall are Aussies, but the top scorer is English (Strauss) and 12 of the top 20 are English.
Look at the extras, 8 of the top 10 extra totals were yielded by the Aussies. It was almost like an extra batsman for the English.
The top 3 bowlers (wickets) were Aussies, but 6 of the top 10 were English. The Aussies in the top 3 also had more overs than any of the English other than Swann. Onions took 10 of 77 overs. If you look at economy then the English bowlers were better.
Interesting comments from Dean Jones saying that Shane Warne would jump at the chance to become captain he would come out of retirement no question if offered.
I wonder will this gather legs at all?
Very true on the stats Shadow, at the end of the day the only stat that matters is 20 wickets in a match. England did it twice to Australia’s once. There in lies the series despite my looking for comfort.
[quote=“Special Olympiakos”]Interesting comments from Dean Jones saying that Shane Warne would jump at the chance to become captain he would come out of retirement no question if offered.
I wonder will this gather legs at all?
Very true on the stats Shadow, at the end of the day the only stat that matters is 20 wickets in a match. England did it twice to Australia’s once. There in lies the series despite my looking for comfort.[/quote]
The story probably has more in terms of legs than Warne does at this stage.
Very true re. the 20 wicket match stat. Nonetheless, the series was a very interesting battle between dissimilar teams. England probably overachieved as a whole, but were probably had better bowlers and definitely better batting bowlers while the Aussies had the more reliable specialist batsmen. I think Strauss also won the tactical battle with Ponting.
[quote=“Special Olympiakos”]Interesting comments from Dean Jones saying that Shane Warne would jump at the chance to become captain he would come out of retirement no question if offered.
I wonder will this gather legs at all?
Very true on the stats Shadow, at the end of the day the only stat that matters is 20 wickets in a match. England did it twice to Australia’s once. There in lies the series despite my looking for comfort.[/quote]
In Cardiff Australia had 12 overa to bowl at Anderson and Panesar, the ultimate tail ender, and could not get them out. Very costly in the long run.
Yeah. Cost them the Ashes. Thats beyond doubt I would say. That draw gave England a massive boost.
[quote=“Shadow”]The story probably has more in terms of legs than Warne does at this stage.
Very true re. the 20 wicket match stat. Nonetheless, the series was a very interesting battle between dissimilar teams. England probably overachieved as a whole, but were probably had better bowlers and definitely better batting bowlers while the Aussies had the more reliable specialist batsmen. I think Strauss also won the tactical battle with Ponting.[/quote]
Would agree with your earlier assessment Shadow. Strauss was superb in nearly all aspects of his captaincy and on very few occasions made glaring mistakes. On the other hand Pontings / Australia’s failure to play Hauritz for the Final Test was a huge mistake and could well have cost them the Ashes. Dont really agree with saying England has better bowlers. Hilfenhaus was superb throughout and Siddle and Johnson got better as the Series went on. I feel that England’s bowlers bowled better as partnerships like Broad and Swann in the Australia 1st innings during the last test where the Aussies probly didnt bowl as a team. Australia had more consistent batting where England’s middle order and Cook struggled for most of the series. England have to look very carefully at the squad for the South Africa series. Big question marks about Cook’s technique, Bell still has problems but will probably go as will Trott after a superb debut. KP will play if fit and i would put him in at 3. Colly wobbled My team for the 1st test if fit would be:
Strauss, Cook, KP, Trott, Colly, Prior, Broad, Swann, Anderson,Harmison and Onions.
Lets not forget that the weather probably saved Australia in the 3rd test at Edgbaston, as opposed to play deciding the 1st draw.
England were definitely no makeweights nor can it be said they were just lucky. they won a tight and exciting series fair and square.
[quote=“Shadow”]Lets not forget that the weather probably saved Australia in the 3rd test at Edgbaston, as opposed to play deciding the 1st draw.
England were definitely no makeweights nor can it be said they were just lucky. they won a tight and exciting series fair and square.[/quote]
England also won 4/5 tosses. Lady Luck was shining on them. Also the majority of dodgy decisions seemed to go England’s way, especially early on.
I agree that the toss went to England but the dodgy calls were going both ways. Generally speaking the umpiring in England is the best andmost impartial around the world.
From what Ive read on the Austrlian newspapers online, the reaction is predictable enough. Theyre very sore and ungracious about it all.
For a start, whats all the fuss about the Oval pitch? We had a wicket that lasted for 4 full days produced over 1,200 runs, 40 wickets (well 39 when you factor in England declaring with 9 down). Thats what test cricket is meant to be a TEST. Not the kind of featherbed batting pitches that are served up in Parkistan or on Englands recent tour of the West Indies. The reason it wasnt a more competitive deciding test and didnt stretch well into Day 5 was Australia batting was sh*t in the first innings, they hadnt the mental fortitude to dig in and bat on a test style pitch in the first innings.
England thoroughly deserved to have won the Ashes, they absolutely mauled Australia at Lords and the Oval. 115 runs and 197 run wins are serious hidings. England were well on top for what play there was in the weather ruined Edgbaston test. Fair enough England got out of jail in Cardiff, but what Australia really need to be focusing on there is the lack of variety in their bowling resulting in an inability to bowl out Monty Panesar with 35 deliveries at him.
It happens from time to time in test cricket and indeed all sports that a team get of jail on a given day. Cardiff was balancing the books for Old Trafford 2005 when Australia sneaked an undeserved draw due to weather when England ran out of time and could only get 9 wickets. (Should also be noted that same thing happened to England in Antigua back in April when again they ran out of time to force the win and could only get 9 West Indian wickets).
Australia bowling lacks variety. They were slaves to line and length. Hadnt the faith or the courage to go with Hauritz at the Oval (despite the fact that Hauritz outshone both Swann & Panesar in Cardiff). Compare that to the vareity England had, the ability of Jimmy Anderson & Onions to move the ball, Stuart Broads off cutters and leg cutters, Swanns understated excellence and the power of Freddie at Lords.
The batting dominance of Australia has been completely overstated. They amassed plenty of runs alright on batting friendly wicket like Cardiff (4 first innings centuries) and when the pressure was off, as in Edgbaston 2nd innings when England hadnt the time to force a win and in Headingly when England had effectively lost the test by lunch on the first morning. When the pressure was on though, Australias batting was brittle and weak and we had three full scale batting collapses, 73-0 to 160 all out at the Oval, 103-2 to 215 all out at Lords, 83-0 & 126-1 to 263 all out at Edgbaston.
Going on about extenuating circumstances and alluding to luck with the playboy bunny reference but Manuel Zelaya’s post answers these points in detail. England and Wales thoroughly deserved to win the series by virtue of stepping up to the plate at key moments and turning the game decisively in their favour. Collingwood, Anderson and Panesar in Cardiff, Strauss and Anderson at Lord’s before Flintoff finished them off on day 5 and Broad, Swann, Strauss and Trott at The Oval. Australia largely got their runs when the pressure was off but capitulated when England and Wales turned the screw at Lord’s, Birmingham and at The Oval. It was a victory for good over evil and the cricketing world seems very right today.
Flintoff’s modesty is a very charming trait.
When asked if he had achieved greatness, Flintoff added: "The obvious answer is no. That’s the Bothams, the Sobers, the Imran Khans, the Tendulkars, the Ricky Pontings, who achieved greatness over a long period of time, playing Test after Test after Test.
"I have performed at times and I am proud to have done that.
“For the bulk of my career I have played through pain and with injury, so to be out on the field was an achievement in some ways - but as for greatness? No.”
He is great.
I see Australia have called up Dutchman Dirk Nannes to their 20/20 squad. He was the Netherlands main man when they beat England in the 20/20 World Cup.
Continuing the line of non-Australians to play for Australia which includes possibly the greatest every spin bowler, the New Zealander Clarrie Grimmett, Archie Jackson, Kepler Wessels, Dav Whatmore, Brendan Julian & Andrew Symonds. Indeed its a tradition that stretches all the way back to Englishman Charles Bannerman, who was the first man to score a century in test cricket for his adopted Australia.
Our Australian racial purists wont be happy with that. Speaking of the racial make up (or lack of it) of the Australian team, an interesting piece in todays Sydney Morning Herald.
Sydney Morning Herald - Tuesday 25 August 2009
August 25, 2009
THERE is something obviously white about the Australian cricket team - and it’s not just their kit. While England and South Africa have long tapped into rich pools of ethnic talent, fielding players with names such as Shafayat, Hussein and Ntini, the Australian team remains as solidly Anglo as in the days of Bradman and Miller.
"I have long asked myself: ‘When is Australian cricket going to find its ethnic stars?’ " Raj Natarajan, president of the India Sports Club and coach says. “The talent is there. Lots of young kids from India and Sri Lanka play at grade level but after that we don’t see them because they are not given the same encouragement and training as an Anglo-Saxon kids.”
Natarajan played first-class cricket in Bangalore before coming to Australia in 1988, when he began coaching. He says Australian administrators need to learn from football and rugby, which have embraced ethnic and indigenous communities. “The administrators can’t get past thinking that anybody but a white Anglo guy with blonde hair should be in the team. And that attitude permeates every level, from national selectors to local clubs.”
Cricket Australia disagrees, pointing to its Culturally and Linguistically Diverse program, the most notable products of which include Pakistan-born NSW player Usman Khawaja, and the Imparja Cup, a state indigenous competition played each February in Alice Springs.
“South Africa is a bit ahead of us here because they have had a policy of fast-tracking people of colour,” says Damien Bown, general manager of game development for Cricket Australia. "We select people on merit. Besides, lots of Australian players have been from ethnic backgrounds, including Simon Katich, who is Croatian, and Jason Gillespie, who is Aboriginal.’’
The absence of players from the subcontinent is “more culturally complex”, according to Indian-born Australian women’s team representative, Lisa Sthalekar. “Lots of Indians, Sri Lankans and Pakistanis play in the early stages of cricket but many of them drop out when it gets serious to focus more on their work. It’s also the case, certainly in women’s cricket, that a lot of Indians don’t want to get any darker, and so they don’t want to spend any more time in the sun than they have to.”
Sthalekar, a former vice-captain of the women’s team, grew up playing for West Pennant Hills. “There was no girls’ competition so I had to play in the boys’ side. And I didn’t cop too much flack.”
Suffan Hassan, 15, is in the under-16 city Emerging Blues development squad and trains four times a week. His parents are from Pakistan and he does not see that as a barrier to playing high-level cricket in Australia.
‘‘My goals are to play first grade for my club, make NSW and obviously [play for] Australia,’’ he said.
Is Freddie really that banjaxed with injuries or is he just sick of it?
[quote=“Manuel Zelaya”]From what Ive read on the Austrlian newspapers online, the reaction is predictable enough. Theyre very sore and ungracious about it all.
QUOTE]
Er, where exactly? Its amazing what you know from 14000 miles away Evo. All I heard yesterday morning in work was people congratulating the Pommy blokes who had stuck stupid headlines from the Sun up all over the place. The reaction here is that England deserved to win and Australia were not good enough. I haven’t heard or sen one ungracious comment from anyone about the Ashes. More resignation that Australia are not as good as what we thought, or assumed, they were.
Its funny (though not surprising) that after a series marked by its thorough sportsmanship from both sides, that the only begrudger is you Evo.
I think in a perfect world, Freddie would prefer to play tests over pyjama cricket, but he doesn’t feel he’s capable of 5 day tests anymore, which is fair enough. God knows he’s given plenty.
He should go and earn lots of money from the pretend cricket now, and we look forward to him commentating on the next Ashes series.
Excellent work by him on his missus as well.
[quote=“Fitzy”]I think in a perfect world, Freddie would prefer to play tests over pyjama cricket, but he doesn’t feel he’s capable of 5 day tests anymore, which is fair enough. God knows he’s given plenty.
He should go and earn lots of money from the pretend cricket now, and we look forward to him commentating on the next Ashes series.
Excellent work by him on his missus as well.[/quote]
The TMS guys were comparing his bowling speeds from the Lords test with those at the Oval. Noticeably slower. He’s definitely not able for the wear and tear of a Test series. One day matches and possibly standalone Tests or 4-day matches, but not 5 5-day Tests in a row, and that’s what Test sides have to do.
im noticing a lot of favour towards the Brits here, would the Irish generally support the Tans in this contest or was it just this year?
HBV*, I think several posters favoured the convicts whilst others amongst us favoured England. Both are foreign countries, so people have a right to support either, for various reasons. Personally, England is our close neighbour with which we share a lot so I would support them over a nation of poor sports from the far side of the world.
In the upcoming Ireland vs England ODI I will of course be rooting for Ireland.