Traditionally the role of the No. 8 would have been heavily based upon carrying the ball. However, these days it depends more on the balance across the rest of the back-row. For example, Australia used Pocock at 8 in the recent world cup and he would be a ruck specialist/turnover merchant as opposed to ball carrier.
For Ireland and Leinster, Heaslip has often been in teams with more dynamic ball-carriers e.g Sean OāBrien, Ferris etc and that has reduced the amount of times he gets his hand on the ball. That being said his ruck and tackle stats are usually right at the top of the team and are very consistent. Also, lasting 80 minutes in most games is a huge asset.
In relation to Glasās question, Iād have him ahead of Vunipola and Senatore. Heās prob at a similar level to Picamoles and Faletau. Both can have good games but are way less consistent than Heaslip (and certainly donāt have the consistency at club level) and it would also depend on what other back row players you have as both are better carriers but not as good in terms of overall work-rate. Pocock isnāt really an 8 but obviously had an exceptional RWC squeezed into the position. No Hooper and heās a 7 though. Vermuelen had a good world cup but as part of a usually dominant pack which makes a big difference. Read is a super player as is Parisse. However Parisse is fading and very injury prone so for a one-off Iād take him but Heaslip for a team over a season. So the answer is prob somewhere in the middle.
Good post, far more informative than the other bluffer. I disagree that heās at the same level as Picamoles, he is not capable any more of having the level of impact on a game that Picamoles can, if he ever could. Iād quibble with Faletau and Vunipola too.
I think Picamoles and Vunipola are far more explosive runners but prob less overall workrate. For example, youād often see them fielding kicks in the backfield and taking it forward which Heaslip almost never does. Iād wonder how often the pair of those last 80 minutes though which means at least one of your subs needs to be earmarked to replace them.
Picamoles looked good in the World Cup but heās been pretty average in recent years for Toulouse and France. Vunipola tends to have big games and then very average games.
Faletau is often excellent for Wales at times - however like many of the Welsh players he doesnāt come near that for the Dragons or have to play big H-Cup games - it would seem he peaks a couple of times a year. Itās also interesting to note that despite Gatland being clearly a fan, he chose Heaslip over Faletau for the first two Lions tests in Oz.
Part of the problem in Ireland is rating our players based on H cup. Wales players are often shite at that level but outperform Irish players for their country.
They do and they donāt - theyāve obviously won 6 nations in recent years but then so have Ireland. Theyāve beaten Ireland but then again Ireland have beaten Wales. Very similar performance levels really. Players like Warburton and Faletau do very little all year apart from for Wales while the Irish players put performances in across the year - I know which I appreciate more.
Past it how? His carrying hasnāt been his focal point since Sean OāBrien emerged.
Against Argentina and France he was top of the stats all over. He was noted by Green and Gold rugby to have the top impact at ruck time alongside Rory Best, in over a season.
Earlier your argument was he was consistently shit, are you turning back on that now?
Wales have won grand slams, Irelandās last two wins are of the Mickey Mouse variety. They perform extremely well at world cups whereas Ireland have been shit.
In the last game Jamie Heaslip played vs Picamoles, he was by far the better player.
The work rate/Total Ruck Involvement and commitment shown by Best, Heaslip, Ross, OāBrien and Toner presents a formidable challenge for any opposition. Best and Heaslip gave the highest numbers Iāve collected in more than a year. Before his injury, OāConnell was matching this work rate. Toner makes a lot of rucks but generally with low impact.
Neither @Mac or @glasagusban have put forward any arguments so far by glas naming a few players. The sure sign of spoofers. I know Munster fans have always had a problem with Jamie, they donāt like the flashy white boots, except on Zeebs