So you’re right and the majority are wrong ??
You don’t believe in the church, so my kids can’t be taught in a catholic school ?
Is that what you want.
8 out of 10 people are Catholic and the other 2 won’t let them educate their kids in a catholic school ??
Tyrannical is the word alright.
Nobody is stopping you from educating your kids in a Catholic school.
It’s great how many of my points you developed and essentially agreed with me on. I’m on the phone so am going to get another doing for being brief in response to your manifesto but here goes.
You’d do better if you didn’t impute so much onto me. I have teacher friends, one primary one secondary, none of them are militant or unhappy. They recognise the good points and acknowledge the bad, they enjoy their jobs. I have another friend who is a TUI official, he disagrees with many of the union’s standpoints, particularly on junior cert reform, and has to go around defending things he doesn’t believe in ironically.
In brief, the leaving cert is a learning off exercise. Nothing more. Quite simply, it isn’t “fair” because it it suits some students far more than others, and girls more than boys. It doesn’t teach critical thinking. It places massive pressure on students. It is a deeply flawed examination. Treating everyone the same is not the same as fairness, and just because everyone does the leaving cert doesn’t make it a fair system of examination.
Consequently, the CAO system is unfair.
I also got a B1 in German. High five. Don’t speak a word of it. We could, if we wanted learn a lot from other systems of teaching languages. From a brief time spent teaching English I know you can bring students up one European standard level in an intensive week. It’s a farce you can study a language for 6 years, let alone 12, and not be able to speak it.
Bringing us on to Irish, the weight of the oral exam has been increased. But everyone always learnt off stock answers for the oral exam anyway, so what’s the difference? There’s more emphasis on learning the stock answers better. I always loved Irish as a language but the leaving cert Irish exam is, sorry to use the word again, shit. Another learning off exercise. It does nothing to instil a like of the language. Luckily I was able to keep Irish up by taking on an extra diploma in college and doing some courses since and using it at work. And I still wouldn’t consider myself fluent. Imagine studying a language for 12 years and not being able to speak it, like practically all Irish people. It is unarguable that the teaching of Irish is a failure if people cannot speak it after 12 years. I also think it should be kept mandatory, but the course needs to be torn up and started again.
You’ve developed points on resources for pupils with special needs. I agree, it is shameful. As @anon7035031 pointed the state went all the way to the Supreme Court to argue access to primary education should stop at 18, how pernicious. You’ve developed points on privileged and underprivileged schools. Underprivileged and special needs persons do not have the same access to education as the rest. That is a shame.
The catholic influence debate is meandering on. I see it as a massive problem that they own so many schools and wield such influence. Priests sitting on interview boards asking prospective teachers whether they go mass is common. Religious institutions training teachers how to teach is influence they should not be allowed have.
It’s funny you’ve put so much effort into challenging me when we agree on so much.
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You keep saying this and referring to the constitution which you really don’t know much about, but as I’ve told you, schools can currently give priority to catholic applicants. This is the same thing as being able to refuse you for not being Catholics this is the current system.
They are supposed to permit students not to participate in religious instruction but in effect this os often overridden. There was an English guy drew attention to it in the media last week regarding his daughter in limerick. In effect, they’ll probably just allow the student sit in the class and read a book or not participate while religion class is going on.
And no, nowhere in the constitution does it say that a principal can’t do this.
The leaving cert as is, is only for rich kids in Bruce college… Free education my hole, the game is rigged.
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Hmmmm you haven’t got a notion. I would say we disagree on most things. I’m a glass is half full type and you’re a glass is completely empty and I’ve smashed it and now I want another glass but only the specific glass I have designed in my head type guy.
You repeat that the leaving is shit and denigrate it as a learning off exercise which ignores any practical work and the thousands of teachers and students who don’t focus on rote learning. You can’t rote learn maths, the most important subject pointwise. Or half the sciences.
It’s unequal for boys and girls??? Blame puberty and late development and lads spending five years thinking about nothing but their flute so. Not the leaving cert. Again there is no suggestion provided merely negativity. Please outline an examination you think is fair.
Your anecdotal stuff about church influence is just that. It’s completely dying off and interview boards and processes are staffed by far more secular types and regulated.
Your language point is complete bollox. Of course ‘intensive’ courses work. Ever hear of the gaeltacht? Half the adults in ireland who can’t speak a word of irish* spent at least 3 weeks there then came home and were fluent for the next three days. Your intensive one week bollox is the language equivalent of the rote learning you despise. As I pointed out its the regular speaking which decides outcomes.
As for changes in the irish exam, I am in absolutely no doubt that students are leaving school with better irish than they were even three years ago. I am in no doubt this is because teachers are forced to make them speak more. Whether they have any more love fir it or remember any of it in 10 years is a moot point.
*with regard to people not being able to speak a word of it, I disagree. it’s amazing how much comes back once you start talking to people. An experiment we tried once was at a Christmas party. We offered free pints for anyone who could speak irish for 2 mins. The results were amazing!
This is very encouraging to hear actually. I’d disagree that whether they have not of a love for it is a moot point. More tomo.
It is long regarded that girls work/achieve better results in a more stifled environment like the classroom than boys do…we by and large learn from risk taking which doesn’t exist in the current school learning environment, thus, second level suits the fairer sex far greater.
Yep I’ve read that. Its also widely held that girls develop quicker mentally and ar on average a couple of mental years older than lads during teens.
Looks like you’ll have a chance to vote on religious discrimination in the educational system soon.
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Bullet points
[quote=“glasagusban, post:164, topic:21598”]
I’m on the phone so am going to get another doing for being brief in response to your manifesto but here goes.[/quote]
Long post rating
We need names, Glas. Names! Your argument is greatly weakened unless you name and shame. This is one of the first things they teach in Debating Skills, a subject sorely missing from our shitty educational system.
Second long post rating.
I’d agree with this. I took a punt on only studying one poet for LC English - and not the Irish one either. He came up and all. BOOM! Success. Meant more time to focus on subjects that fitted with my career path.
Tard alert
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The answer here is the middle ground I think.
Like it or not the Church own a lot of schools. A legacy of their power in the past. They will say that with that comes an implied idea that you must be Catholic to join.
On the other hand there is the argument that the Stare funds the schools therefore anyone should be let in.
Opposing viewpoints ranging from suing the Church over their admission policy and just ‘baptising the kid the fuck’ have been offered.
The first is unrealistic. The second is dangerous. Yes education is important but subscribing to a religion that the parents don’t want is dangerous.
The solution is - well acceptance that things are the way they are and will take some time to change.
The missus’ nephew started school in September. When he is quizzed on what he learned in school, he says ‘prayers’ even before 2 and 2. I’m not an expert on what goes on in schools but that shit can’t be good.
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Great post @Juhniallio, it looks like my eldest will probably end up in a DEIS school purely due to the location and availability. What’s your overall view on them? I know the advantage of smaller class numbers etc. but what are the disadvantages? Should I be trying further afield? I can PM specifics if it helps. Thanks
@ChocolateMice went to a DEIS school and look how he turned out… Your kid will be fine, pal. He’ll be able to mingle with Kings and peasant alike… He’ll be able to take care of himself and will develop survival skills that will stand to him in the boardroom later in life… Once you’re on top of his study all will be fine.
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Thanks for the reassurance pal, I’m sure it applies to a girl too?
didnt @ChocolateMice get a second chance though? not even his dear mother would have dreamt when he was 20 he would turn out the way he did.
Ah fuck…she’s bolloxed…
But nah, home environment is as important at that age as school. I’m not a parent myself but as long as you have daily chats with them and see what’s going on in their life all should be good. DEIS schools are usually a mix of all sorts and it’s down to how the teacher can keep those who might be brighter, like your own angel, interested while also making sure others are not left behind… Probably no different to other schools but you will have a greater element of children from less affluent households coming in with dietry/behavioural problems… Kids ain’t stupid and pickup on these things so where ever your angel lands you’ll just have to engage with her in a way our parents didn’t