Those ballsy guys deserve ever bit of good fortune that comes their way
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Theyre selling angel dust?
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Probably a couple of teachers expecting Richard Bruton to back pay their claims for the last six years
No BIK on the Tesla?
Win win
Interesting quote in the Examiner this morning about the growing pressure on the Gov from teachers re: new entrants pay:
âHowever, Mr Donohoe and his department are insistant that there can be no revision of the national pay deal that was signed last year.
âThe unions had the chance to make new entrants pay a core demand last year, they didnât. They had the choice to fix that issue, they didnât. It is a bit rich for them to be squealing about it now,â said one senior Government figure. â
Have the unions hung out their younger members/prospective members twice in ten years?
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An shower of fucking whingers.
Starting to vote with their feet now all the same.
Have the union responded mate? Letâs hear both sides before rushing to judgement
Are you expecting them to admit it?
It has a ring of plausibility to it imho. The real-politik of the situation was that there was only ever going to be so much money for public service pay increases, the union and gov both knew this. The union likely prioritised their long-standing members (and ones with the ear of the union leadership) rather than negotiating that the money go to equalising the situation for new members.
Itâs crocodile tears that the union leaders shed âŚ
No, all Iâm saying is that you should listen to their side before making your mind up,I think thatâs reasonable, I hate to say this and I type this with a heavy heart but I feel that you already have your mind made up on this issue and nothing the unions could say could convince you otherwise.
For me, thatâs a bad place to be and maybe you should be more open minded
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Iâd have decent knowledge of the teachersâ unions. Theyâre dominated by older teachers. In many instances the people running the local branches are often retired teachers and a lot of branches now operate like social clubs for older and retired teachers. Interest and involvement from younger teachers is at an all time low.
Thatâs because the younger teacher would mostly agree with the perception that theyâve been sold out twice. The younger teachers think that the unions have been mostly focused on issues affecting older teachers rather than the glaring issues affecting them. The young ones are unhappy and feel voiceless, the membership generally has been very unhappy. When the unions donât agree with the government they say they need to be realistic and when they do reach an agreement they say itâs a sell-out to certain sectors of the membership.
One perspective of the strike threat is that itâs a change of power in the unions. To me, it seems theyâre entitled to renegotiate a past agreement if they want. I thought that Bruton himself said that the complaints of the younger teachers are reasonable. Now he seems to be saying âreasonable or not, tough shit, you agreed to it and youâre stuck with it.â
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What have future generations even done for us ??
The younger teachers should set up their own union.
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The Gardai tried that, was shut down fairly quick.
Every union is like that, dominated by one particular group with their own agenda.
Problem is most younger teachers are of the generation that expect everything handed to them. They are not active in local branch, many are not even members of the union (but not shy about asking for help on work related matters when it suits them). I say this as a ex school steward who held this position for many years.
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From reading some of the reports over the last few days too, the main issue seems to be permanent posts rather than the actual salary that they are at. There was quite a few articles along the lines of âHow am I expected to survive on âŹ10k/yearâ or âI need a second job to support my teaching salaryâ but when you read the detail it was because they were on hourly rates and only getting a couple of hours a week. At the same time theres a potential teacher shortage according to the unions too? Surely that doesnât stack up - either there are enough people for the jobs i.e. itâs difficult to get a full-time position or thereâs not enough people for the jobs in which case youâd expect more full-time posts than candidates willing to fill them?
Problem is casualisation. If a full time post (22 hrs) comes available, a lot of school managements break post into 2 or sometimes 3 posts. It gives them greater flexibility with respect to substitution, extra curricular etc.
Next to no one starts off on 22 hour contract. Many young teachers will be hopping from one short contract to another until they get a break. Can be demoralising from a financial and emotional perspective.
Most young treachers are now taking up opportu ities abroad. There is a real shortage of teachers across abroad range of subjects. Irish and home ec are the main ones but maths, physics etc are not too far behind. We had a maths teacher out for 5 weeks this year and no sub could be found.
Irish will become optional in not too distant future as a result of shotages.
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Informative,
Surely the unions have a role in trying to match the needs of the school in terms of that flexibility to the working conditions. At a simple suggestion, could teachers be full-time with the associated benefits but used across 2 or 3 schools as a specialist in a particular area.
It strikes me a similar to the situation in countries like France where the legislation protecting employees has become so strong and inflexible that ironically employers are very wary about offering full-time thereby resulting in fewer jobs/worse conditions.
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Very difficult to do that as timetables are not generic and school managers want control over all staff.
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That makes sense. It would seem to me that this âgig economisationâ of the teaching posts is a far bigger issue than the actual salary scale for both the teachers and the overall system? Maybe the union should focus on this as their main issue - I think theyâd get a far more sympathetic response from the public âŚ
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