The Conor McGregor Club Sponsored By Fossett's 🐐

[myboyblue]

Where?

[Cheasty]

@Ralphie

This is the start of the next presidential election.

Just wait until McGregor finds out that President of Ireland is a ceremonial position.

[flattythehurdler]

The best, and scariest of them all, still has to be the coronavirus being caused by 5g phone signals, with sufficient belief to burn down masts.

[Cheasty]

@flattythehurdler

The best, and scariest of them all, still has to be the coronavirus being caused by 5g phone signals, with sufficient belief to burn down masts.

I think there are many of these people’s beliefs that are even scarier than that.

[myboyblue]

@LionelRitchie

Already posted couple hours back by a lad whose posts you normally stalk…

Your game is dropping

The Conor McGregor Club Sponsored By Fossett's 🐐 - #5785 by BruidheanChaorthainn

I can’t see that tweet?

[flattythehurdler]

It’s the fact that this is/was so patently absurd, but a hape of goons big and old enough to destroy things believed it and acted.

[Cheasty]

@flattythehurdler

It’s the fact that this is/was so patently absurd, but a hape of goons big and old enough to destroy things believed it and acted.

Yes it is patently absurd but damage to phone masts is at least only damaging property. The logical endpoint of the conspiracy worldview is genocide.

[Rocko]

@flattythehurdler

There are perfectly nice and reasonable people who were and are comfortable and happy in the fairly uniform and predictable society they were raised in, white, Irish, Catholic for the most part. There’s nothing wrong with that. Such folk will by and large overcome their fears and unease, and accept and even welcome genuine people fleeing persecution. The fact that they are uneasy doesn’t make them racist. The fact that they question the demographic arriving doesn’t really either, if they are questioning the motives rather than the race.

I think that’s a very generous attitude to adopt towards attitudes here.

I think people feeling “uneasy” because different races of people are arriving in Ireland are racist.

I have a huge problem with the complete abdication of responsibility associated with the white Irish catholic background and some divine right to maintain separation from other races as and when it suits people.

The easiest charity to demonstrate as a country is giving to disasters overseas as we always excel in. It’s beyond disappointing that when the economic plight of others begins to infringe on our insular happiness that so many resort to defensiveness and justification of a position of isolation

[glenshane]

So why do you think there are so many Libyan refugees in the world?

[Cheasty]

@Juhniallio

He didnt tweet ‘this is war’ or anything like that after ashling murphy was killed or ryan caseys statemwnt. He had a bravo to caseys statement and that was it. His big jump to this is war and his new uber racist shit came last week.

The jump happened after Casey’s statement. Casey’s statement was the trigger for a massive upsurge in far right online activity. McGregor’s call for war was made on the back of that upsurge in far right online activity.

McGregor’s jump to full blown racist demagogue was likely coming soon anyway, but Casey’s statement was the excuse. That McGregor’s jump to full blown racist demagogue likely was coming soon anyway does not change the reality that it was Casey’s statement that triggered it.

It happened because Casey was seen as a virtuous victim. A virtuous victim who plays into the hands of racist stereotypes is manna from heaven for the far right.

[glenshane]

@flattythehurdler

The best, and scariest of them all, still has to be the coronavirus being caused by 5g phone signals, with sufficient belief to burn down masts.

Nowhere near as absurd as making kids wear masks in school

[backinatracksuit]

And on another thread we’re discussing Thousands are sailing as the best Irish song ever

[flattythehurdler]

Here’s my view fwiw. I don’t believe multiculturalism is necessarily better than a single culture, it just depends on the people involved. It can be worse, as many people laud “multiculturalism” but in fact mix within their own monocultural bubble, and are suspicious of those outside it, and prejudiced against them. This is both people migrating to another country as well as the indigenous (or current indigenous).
I think it behoves people moving to another culture or country for whatever reason, to respect and adapt to what passes for the culture and law in that country, and if they desire to change it, to act within the spirit of the law.
Personally, I genuinely couldn’t care less what colour race or creed people are, but I’d expect the same courtesy back.
I am in particular here talking about an attitude to women, and an attitude to giving folk a fair go.
As regards Ireland, I’ve grown up here. I preferred it empty of people. In my opinion, it has been a nice, safe and law abiding society because it has been sparsely populated. I’ve observed in the past that if you put 60 million Irish people into a country the size of England,it would be a hellhole.
I like the space.
I’d be as happy with 3-4 million hurling Bedouins in the country.
I’d rather it stays relatively depopulated.
It’s certainly selfish, but I don’t believe it is racist.
A second point is that I have observed far more overtly racist behaviour from ethnic minority groups than I have from the population as a whole. If you ever hear a Pakistani talking about Indians or vice versa you’d be shocked. They really don’t like each other.
I think we are all racist to an extent. It’s a genetic level thing, mix with your own tribe, but, like most base instincts, for the most part we consciously try to override them. We do it all the time. We see it come out when society gets ragged though.
The behaviour of Israel in Gaza is as racist as you will get.
I have been a part owner of a company that employs a lot of second and third generation Muslim ladies. I have found it instructive and illuminating. I have found them absolutely lovely. Many still have arranged marriages though, and one told me recently that she is the first and was the only one of her contemporaries to learn to drive. She said a few of her friends have since learned, which is fantastic, but there is a misogyny amongst Muslim men which mirrors our own fifty years ago. It was wrong then, and it’s wrong now. Head covering doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but full face covering does. Both to me are misogynistic, but it’s a matter of degree. Women have to cover themselves from lustful eyes, but men can do whatever they want. It is wrong. The full face covering has no place in a culture that I wish to be part of. I find it offensive, and sinister. I could lie to you, and tell you how great it is as it’s multiculturalism, but it would be a lie. It’s just how I feel.
I would not treat a person any differently, as that would be rude and wrong, but I’d be horrified at the thought of my daughter having to do it. I feel sorry for the women that do.
My point though was that society is built upon rules and compromise. I can understand why people settled and happy in a society/culture are uneasy about change. It’s just the way it is. Screaming “racist” at them won’t solve anything, and, unless you believe Ireland should have completely open borders to anybody who wants to come and live here (maybe you do), the you must support a functioning immigration system and refusal to allow immigration system, and effective deportation of those refused. The trouble is, unless you are prepared to act as Australia does, it is theoretical only, as it is impossible to instigate or maintain.
I’d be in favour as I’ve said of accessible short term but renewable working visas.

[flattythehurdler]

@Rocko

I think people feeling “uneasy” because different races of people are arriving in Ireland are racist.

I’d say you are absolutely wrong. Feeling uneasy cannot be racist. Acting upon it may be.
The least racist types are those that feel uneasy but overcome this through conscious effort.

[backinatracksuit]

The least racist are surely those that aren’t at all racist?

You make good points above, particularly in relation to misogyny, I would have huge issues of one of my daughters was stepping out with a radical Muslim.
But I don’t think it’s the issue that needs focussing on.
It’s great to have a spacious country as you describe it but it’s selfish to assume we have the right to it eternally, are we one of the least densely populated countries in Europe, I believe so

[Cheasty]

@flattythehurdler

I think we are all racist to an extent. It’s a genetic level thing, mix with your own tribe, but, like most base instincts, for the most part we consciously try to override them. We do it all the time. We see it come out when society gets ragged though.

I don’t think racism is genetic at all. It’s learned human behaviour. Is it genetic that we have few marriages between white Irish people from Killiney and Kilnamanagh?

I don’t even fully understand what people mean when they talk about multiculturalism and I think few enough people who talk about “multiculturalism” (whatever they mean by that) being a supposed threat know what they mean either.

The culture I grew up in is very different to the culture somebody living in a Gaeltacht area of Connemara grew up in.

I grew up watching English football. One of the first teams I saw playing was the Arsenal of George Graham. They had Paul Davis, Michael Thomas, David Rocastle, Viv Anderson and Gus Caesar playing for them. I never thought of these players as anything other than English. Some of the top English athletes of the time were Frank Bruno, Daley Thompson, Fatima Whitbread, Linford Christie, Colin Jackson. Again, these were normal English/British people to me. The idea seemed so normal I didn’t even stop for a moment to consider that questioning this might be a thing that some other people did. Most English people were white but there were also some who were black. That was the way it was. That was normality. I couldn’t even comprehend of a time previous to this when this was not the case. I suppose as a child I did slightly wonder why it wasn’t the same in Ireland, why we had very few non-white people. We had a few lads playing football for us and that was about it.

Some people are just extremely resistant to change. But change will always happen. Ireland 1910 compared to Ireland 1840 was a very different place. Ireland 1930 compared to Ireland 1910 was a very different place. Ireland 1970 compared to Ireland 1930 was a very different place. Ireland 2020 compared to Ireland 1970 is a very different place.

[Rocko]

@flattythehurdler

Here’s my view fwiw. I don’t believe multiculturalism is necessarily better than a single culture, it just depends on the people involved. It can be worse, as many people laud “multiculturalism” but in fact mix within their own monocultural bubble, and are suspicious of those outside it, and prejudiced against them. This is both people migrating to another country as well as the indigenous (or current indigenous).
I think it behoves people moving to another culture or country for whatever reason, to respect and adapt to what passes for the culture and law in that country, and if they desire to change it, to act within the spirit of the law.
Personally, I genuinely couldn’t care less what colour race or creed people are, but I’d expect the same courtesy back.
I am in particular here talking about an attitude to women, and an attitude to giving folk a fair go.
As regards Ireland, I’ve grown up here. I preferred it empty of people. In my opinion, it has been a nice, safe and law abiding society because it has been sparsely populated. I’ve observed in the past that if you put 60 million Irish people into a country the size of England,it would be a hellhole.
I like the space.
I’d be as happy with 3-4 million hurling Bedouins in the country.
I’d rather it stays relatively depopulated.
It’s certainly selfish, but I don’t believe it is racist.
A second point is that I have observed far more overtly racist behaviour from ethnic minority groups than I have from the population as a whole. If you ever hear a Pakistani talking about Indians or vice versa you’d be shocked. They really don’t like each other.
I think we are all racist to an extent. It’s a genetic level thing, mix with your own tribe, but, like most base instincts, for the most part we consciously try to override them. We do it all the time. We see it come out when society gets ragged though.
The behaviour of Israel in Gaza is as racist as you will get.
I have been a part owner of a company that employs a lot of second and third generation Muslim ladies. I have found it instructive and illuminating. I have found them absolutely lovely. Many still have arranged marriages though, and one told me recently that she is the first and was the only one of her contemporaries to learn to drive. She said a few of her friends have since learned, which is fantastic, but there is a misogyny amongst Muslim men which mirrors our own fifty years ago. It was wrong then, and it’s wrong now. Head covering doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but full face covering does. Both to me are misogynistic, but it’s a matter of degree. Women have to cover themselves from lustful eyes, but men can do whatever they want. It is wrong. The full face covering has no place in a culture that I wish to be part of. I find it offensive, and sinister. I could lie to you, and tell you how great it is as it’s multiculturalism, but it would be a lie. It’s just how I feel.
I would not treat a person any differently, as that would be rude and wrong, but I’d be horrified at the thought of my daughter having to do it. I feel sorry for the women that do.
My point though was that society is built upon rules and compromise. I can understand why people settled and happy in a society/culture are uneasy about change. It’s just the way it is. Screaming “racist” at them won’t solve anything, and, unless you believe Ireland should have completely open borders to anybody who wants to come and live here (maybe you do), the you must support a functioning immigration system and refusal to allow immigration system, and effective deportation of those refused. The trouble is, unless you are prepared to act as Australia does, it is theoretical only, as it is impossible to instigate or maintain.
I’d be in favour as I’ve said of accessible short term but renewable working visas.

A sparsely populated Ireland is blissful and all but entirely unrealistic, and much more unrealistic than completely open borders.

The global economy and the obsession with growth indices is a far bigger obstacle to population control than any immigration laws. While the global population explodes we can’t expect to keep our population at a static level. And that’s especially true when we want to participate in the global economy.

So as much as I’d like to holiday in an idyllic under populated west of Ireland I understand that it’s not immigration that removes that underpopulation, it’s our commitment to a growth economy. All that immigration changes is the makeup of the population, not the total itself.

The points in misogyny are well made. As you said we’re no more than a generation or two removed from our own problems in that regard. And as with all these things there is nuance - the matter of rules versus choice, the rules applying to only one gender are difficult to comprehend or justify. But in Sikhism or Judaism there are other gender based rules and norms that seem less offensive or challenging.

[flattythehurdler]

I agree entirely with all of this.

[flattythehurdler]

@backinatracksuit

The least racist are surely those that aren’t at all racist?

I’d turn that around a bit, and say you can’t be brave if you’re not afraid. It takes a better person to override basic instinct, however that instinct is acquired.
We’ve been fighting each other tribally since the dawn of man it seems.

[Cheasty]

The concept of the “blow-in” was once a big thing in Irish society. Perhaps in some rural areas it still is but I think not so much any more. People’s perception changes because society’s perception of what is “different” changes.

Suspicion of gay people was once a major thing in Irish society. Again, with some people that’s undoubtedly still an issue but across society it’s less so than before.

None of it is genetic, it’s learned behaviour, and as learned behaviour changes perceptions change. This is why it is so important that right-wing propaganda is defeated, because it teaches behaviour which is incompatible with a civilised society.