Absolutely incredible shit went on that I knew very little about till reading up a bit on it recently. It’s simply not taught in school or even history courses at third level really.
The Ballyseedy Massacre defies belief. Pro treaty forces, the legal army of the state, as a revenge for five of their own soldiers getting killed by a booby trapped road block authorised the clearing of road blocks by anti treaty prisoners. Days later nine prisoners were killed in what looked like the process of clearing a road block.
It turned out they were actually tied to a landmine and it was detonated. The story wouldn’t have got out but one of the nine actually survived and escaped.
Members of Michael Collins’ famous ‘squad’ from the Tan war actually turned out to be some of the most bloodthirsty cunts going when turning against their own.
The anti treaty lads cuntish acts included the assassination of Kevin O’Higgins elderly father and WT Cosgrave’s uncle but it definitely seems the ‘Free Staters’ were far worse, especially since they were meant to be the legitimate army of the new state.
The most amazing thing is that it all appeared to be completely senseless as almost everyone involved was just living together as normal less than ten years together with a load of the anti treaty lads taking their seats in the Dail without anything really have changed in terms of heads of state, oaths of allegiance or the small matter of the six counties.
Can @padjo please get a little snidey comment or a :rolleyes: out of the way earlier as I’d be interested to hear what worthwhile posters know or think about the whole thing. Amazing the way it’s been brushed under the carpet really. No wonder the old school FF and FG lads hated each other so much.
There was probably close to 150 anti treaty or civilians (sympathizers) murdered in cold blood by the state that has been glossed over bar the odd sound bite- obviously not including those killed in battle / skirmishes.
Will the government learn from recent events tho and do a proper job remembering these events? - highly unlikely.
I read a letter not so long ago, it was written by a free state soldier who was present the day Liam Lynch was killed. As Lynch was dying in agony on the ground most of the free staters tried to stop a doctor and priest being sought - they wanted him to die in agony and go to hell. The hatred and bitter divisions are not as widely known by the average punter as they should be.
It’s also strange how some of the worst of the fighting happened in Kerry, where very little action happened during the WOI. No doubt local divisions along class lines played a part here - small farmers and labourers looking to get their piece of the pie.
? There were 16 RIC men shot in one day alone in Kerry in Nov 1920, 7 killed, leading to the siege of Tralee. Kerry like Cork would have been mostly anti treaty and the forces that overcame them were not locals, the sea landings under Paddy Daly would have been mostly new recruits from Dublin after the IRA were defeated there.
The siege of Kilmallock rebel forces came to support the Limerick brigade from both Cork & Kerry. Very interesting few days fighting all across Limerick over those few weeks.
Munster republic last to fall, executions at the road side, hunger strikes in Cork prison,free stater murder gangs from Dublin on the loose in Kerry/ Cork bad times
A remarkable statistic is that in the period 1916 though the end of the war of Independence in 1921 the British judicially executed 40 IRA members, while in 1922 -1923 the free state judicially executed 83. This does not include extrajudicial killings in the WOI or on either side in the civil war.
The free state forces sent down from Dublin were as bad as the tans, plenty of local stories of groups of men burnt alive inside barns. Civil war scars never ever heal in a nation, the victors bury the atrocities and erase it from public knowledge.
Yes valid points, expect the government to bypass the brave men who were executed and died on hunger strike and who endured hell in prison and later on,my Kerry granda one of them,never ever spoke about hard labour in the scrubs,frongoch etc, fucked him up for life
One of the problems with books on the Civil War is that one is consistently fearful of agendas on the part of the writer. With that in mind I would recommend the Republic by Charles Townsend even though I consider it to have a pro treaty agenda.
