I know what we’re talking about. You said European clubs wouldn’t be interested in signing them because of the language barrier. That’s complete nonsense of course.
It doesn’t happen though which is a pity. A stronger domestic league would be good but a better spread of our playing resources would be an improvement on the current situation.
So tell me why, lets say for argument sake Bayer Leverkusen don’t come and take some irish players? Is it because we aren’t putting them forward? Why would they go and get lets say a Swedish or Danish player first?
Is it because there are closer culturally?
Is it because they are closer geographically?
Or is it because our guys are not as good technically because the coaching is sub par? Whereas in England our players athletic ability is somewhat more in tune with the game there?
Basically, why don’t irish guys go further abroad in your opinion? And how could you change that?
I’m being Serious about the questions now. And please forget about the stronger domestic league, its pie in the sky thinking. I happen to think the language barrier is a consideration even though you don’t. Isn’t German (for this case) widely thought as a 2nd language in many of its neighbouring countries?
The thing that is laughable is that some involved in Irish football blame the English game for them not producing players of international quality. Paul Doolin for one had a ridiculous point about wishing we were closer to Europe. While it is popular on this forum and elsewhere to blame England which has employed easily 95% of our international players of recent vintage, the problems are unfortunately much closer to home. By the time these players go to England, their technique is already lacking. Going through the squad at the moment particularly those who came through the Irish game with the exception of Duff and Keane the rest are functional athletes.
But Kev the language thing is bullshit of course. I’d say it’s more like Ireland in the greater scheme of things is considered part of the UK in football terms. Our players have pretty much always played there and due to the poor coaching at home wouldn’t be well suited to the more technical leagues. It’s definitely the FAI should consider but more and more the big European clubs including the English ones are looking towards Africa, Asia, America not little old Paddyland.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
have you even heard of Wim Koevermans :lol: :lol: or the FAI been one of the few countries to be admitted to the UEFA Grassroots Charter. The FAI is the benchmark now for european countries to follow in terms of Structure & Philosophy, Players Programmes and League and Coach Programmes and UEFA awarded them after the FAI underwent a formal inspection from UEFA’s Football Development Division.
stick to english football as you dont have a clue about whats happening in Ireland
That all sounds fantastic is theory, but where are these players that are going through this supposedly top notch system? Are they 10 year olds now, are they 15? When could one expect to see the benefits of this?
It goes against what i have seen and heard about on the ground, where the coaching remains lazy and unstructured in many clubs, no matter what the area co-ordinators do.
How do the FAI punish poor coaching, and lack of adherence to their structures, or do they at all? Elite players down in the south get looked after, and go to acadamies etc. But its an all round club structure you need, because if the good players go back to poor coaching then its one step forward, two steps back.
Presenting structures and PP’s to a UEFA delegation doesn’t mean it all works well.
id say another few years before they come through. the reality is that the FAi have one of the best coaching structures in europe- UEFA have recognised this,they have achieved the equivalent of an ISO 9000. The number of technical coaches has increased masively over the last few years- until recently there were 70 coaches dealing with technical development. this covers Technical Development Plan, a Women’s Development, an Emerging Talent Programme and a Referee’s Development Plan and a Schools’ Development Plan. These technical coaches are highly trained & motivated.
To be one of the best in europe is a remarkable achievement & im afraid your anecdotial evidence must be treated with a pinch of salt when the evidence is there to suggest otherwise
Maybe, i’ll take your word on it, i don’t know how they would analyze the structures or how they came to give them the award. Anyway, i actually hope your completely right. But i would certainly not trust anything the FAI put together on paper.
The schools one is interesting though, all 3 major organisations (FAI, GAA & IRFU) have identified the schools as a priority. But the schools need to assist these development people for it to work. Again its anecdotal, but i know in even traditional strong GAA schools they can’t get male coaches. I got paid 2 years ago to go back and coach my old schools Senior Football team, was put on the books with the teachers and all. They couldn’t do it last year due to money as they didn’t have enough regular teachers as it was. I helped out anyway, but wasn’t able to commit the same way as i couldn’t justify the time, and football in the school certainly suffered. They now have 6th years training the 1st year team. I know the rugby have tried to go into this same school, and did. But other than 3-4 coaching/fun days in the year there was no follow up, as there was nobody in the school to do it.
The teachers in the rugby schools in Cork get over-time pay to coach, so they continue to thrive, but not all schools can do that.
Its going to be the same for the soccer lads everywhere. The development people can only be in one place at a time. This is across the board, and i know people in all 3 organisations working in this area, but they are all ad with plans and organising this and that, but ultimately i think many of them are ignoring the realities.
One question TASE or Rocko, or anyone with kids maybe?
I’m open to correction now, but don’t Irish schoolboys leagues even as low as 9’s & 10’s still get played on full size pitches? I certainly saw a few in the local park last year played on full size pitches. Which IMO, is ridiculous. They should be scaled down, very much like they do in Italy and Spain, more touches, more skill development.
the schools thing is strange- in Dublin apart from rugby shchools dont really play a part in developing football or gga players. it might be different in rural areas as i know that o rourke is big into coaching his cbs in meath & the same goes for some school in kilkenny but I cant see any dublin school developing gga or football players- yes they might be a gga school but thats just because they would have a strong gga team,
the other obstacle yet advantage the FAI have is the sheer weight of numbers playing football compared to other sports. Its pretty easy for the GGA to have specialist coaching of a dublin kid playing hurling as there are so few playing- to get the resources to coach the 1000’s upon 1000’s of footballers is tougher
i wouldnt be 100% sure on what age they start using full size pitches. this argument gets thrown out a bit & it would make sense not to be using full size pitch- i have a book why england wont win the world cup & if i recall correctly it is one fo the reasons given but I believe the book rubbishes this idea- Ill have a look later
Ya, it was something i noticed in Italy. In the big clubs and top leagues they even split them up in accordance with height.
The GAA looked at this very seriously, and went with recommendations from a few different sports, Rugby league & Union and AFL and how they changed the size of pitches and teams. I still believe U-14’s playing GAA on a full pitch is too much. But against that, strong players may dominate even more in a smaller pitch.
Nice try on the playing numbers, :rolleyes: :lol:
not biting
Not today anyway.
When I was playing Under 9s and Under 10s twenty years ago we didn’t play on full size pitches then. There have always been smaller pitches in Dublin for the younger agegroups that are maybe about 2/3rds of the size of the full pitches at most. Size 4 ball too obviously.
Nowadays there are smaller pitches again in Dublin anyway. There are games that get played across pitches and there are some dedicated small pitches in a few of the clubs for the youngest age groups. They’re like 5-a-side pitches and it’s not an 11-a-side game at that level.
We haven’t been good at developing skills in this country historically. Brady stands out as an obvious example from years gone by but we’ve been limited on technical players alright. Even now McGeady is probably the most technically adept player and, though he makes a point of crediting the Irish setup with much of his development, he was mainly coached at Celtic and by his father.
But it is improving as TASE says and we’d do well to retain more central control of our players. I take your point about lads going back to poorly run clubs after being together for elite training or whatever but at least they’re still under our influence. Outsourcing the development of our players to England (where player development is atrocious) set us back years. And we initially tried to fix it by developing that FÁS scheme to rival their YTS programme but thankfully we’re now a bit more enlightened and are focussing on better skills for younger players.
[quote=“Rocko, post: 57114”]
When I was playing Under 9s and Under 10s twenty years ago we didn’t play on full size pitches then. [/quote]
Yeah right.
Interesting stuff here in the last couple of days.
Amond went to Portugal this season and Anto Flood went to Sweden. To say it doesn’t happen is incorrect.
Under 11’s played on full size pitch when I started, also about twenty years ago.
Under 12s was the first season of full size pitch in Galway. That was 15 years ago.
they are not their very first clubs though. I think we are really talking about the lads we all hear about who head over to Sunderland or Liverpool or wherever when they are 14,15,16. I think Rocko would like to see these lads spread out a bit, and get their schooling in Holland or Italy or Spain or somewhere. Where they learn the fundamentals. At least thats the impression i was getting.
Rocko - I have no problem with the Elite squads of course, you need them to develop the best lads, but i just think they should be going back to better set ups. Even if the lads themselves brought something back (a kinda of train the trainer effort), or there was a scheme where his club coach also got to tag along on occasion to see what goes on, and learn from the experience as well. The coaches who bring these players through will get a certain amount of satifaction from that as well. Its much easier to convince a coach he may need to change if he see’s an elite squad training and see’s how good it can be (he’ll adapt himself) , rather than a Development officer coming out some wet thursday night and telling him this is the way you HAVE to do it. It may be a softer approach.
Oh right, I didn’t realise that’s what we were talking about.