but purcell was a 1st division standard player that was a sensation in lague 2. he wasnt even a good premier player
if anything less Irish are getting to go to english team as young players so the LOI is getting stronger by default
Jaysus he’s in fierce bad form alright. Its a wonder he’s keeping his place at all.
He’s one player, i don’t know much of him tbh, but he can not be held up as a reasoning for someone thinking LOI is of the same standard as League 1 or 2. I’m sure the top 3 in Ireland would beat a good number of League 2 sides. But that doesn’t make LOI Premier a better league.
The LOI is not getting stronger, to say it is, is just completely blinkered. The drop off in standard in the past 3 years has been stark. The players follow the money, and the better players get the money. Many LOI players are out of work now, no doubt they’d drop everything and go to England if they got that chance. If they were good enough they’d be taken, they are not.
The average wage in League 2 is £49,600 (€57,500 approx), which is just over €1k a week. Is there anyone in Ireland still getting that? Maybe 6-7 players max in the whole league. There is nothing attractive about the LOI now in comparison to League football in England. A few years ago for alot of the better player in LOI was really good, higher than League 2 and most of League 1. As well as that there was European football and the chance to be a big fish in a small pond, but what use is European football if you can’t feed yourself or your family.
Bottom line, the players are not going to England (where they need to to play for out National team) because they are not good enough, and if your not good enough for League 2 football in England, then you’ll never play for Ireland. So to be suggesting people should be looking at the LOI for International players is madness. The odd freak/late developer will come through, but nothing in the numbers of the recent past.
point noted but coleman ,fahey,long,doyle,ward,murphy,hunt are all Irish squad players or first teamers. thats a good chunk of the international squad who have LOI experience so to suggest that to disregard current LOI players is madness. the precedent is there
on a side note- do many Irish players actually go over to 1st or 2nd division clubs? I dont think many do but could be wrong- rocko is the man to telll us
Not directly in alot of cases i’d say. More like going to EPL clubs and dropping down, but thats just the local experience i get around Cork. A whole different conversation, but the FAI still don’t make a good fist of looking after returning players, that i have seen up close.
Again, i know there is a precedence, but the players were better then, as was the money, so they were more likely to come home. They got confidence in Ireland, played in Europe etc and went back due to better exposure. What seems to happen now is they try and get in somewhere in Championship, League 1 or 2. Some of the lads coming back from England were still really talented players.
My general opinion on the standard is from watching maybe 7 or 8 games this year, not that much in the greater scheme of things, but still enough to get a look at what its like imo. I daresay if you watched Rovers for most of this season, your view would be slightly scewed, as they play nice ball and won the league.
The bit in bold is obviously completely untrue but reflects the view of many unfortunately.
Is that all you have to contribute? of course it could include top leagues and some 2nd tier leagues in a number of other countries, i should be more specific. And its the view of many that LOI players are not good enough for the National team because it is almost always the case, bar the odd token gesture of a squad appearance.
Of course you are entitled to believe they are good enough, but it doesn’t make what others say untrue.
I’ve plenty to contribute Kev but you’ve made up your mind anyway and despite claiming to be “asking a serious question” you immediately suggested others were incorrect “whether you like to admit it or not.”
Your conclusion that you have to play in the English top flight to play for Ireland is flawed. I’m sorry for not making other points in the same post.
But i didn’t say that, and i explained that obviously a player playing a decent standard somewhere else should also be considered in the last post, it would be obvious to anyone what i meant. In professional terms (and most aren’t even professional now anyway) the LOI is not a good enough standard for an Irish international. Anyone playing in it right now is either not talented enough for that standard, or is nowhere near it yet.
If it happens that LOI players start making the squad then do you really believe we will be challenging for qualifications?
So do you really think LOI is better than League 2, or as good lets say as League 1?
And what LOI players would you have on the National squad?
But just to confirm, yes i have made up my mind, i have no doubt there are no present LOI players ready or able to play International football. And i believe they would have to play a far higher standard for a period of time before being considered.
I wouldn’t be inclined to rule players out perpetually just on the basis of playing in Ireland. I don’t think we have any who or good enough at the moment but they’re hardly 6 levels from playing international football as you suggested. I think you’re inclined to overrate the lower levels in England where only the top two are of any sort of decent standard and you just happened to forget about the rest of the entire world in your rush to judgement. You’ve no interest in debate because you’ve made up your mind based on your limited knowledge.
1, i had a debate with TASE. We disagreed, but seemed to agree to do so.
2, Saying i forgot the rest of the world is really clutching at straws, it would be obvious to anyone what i meant, decent top level football and the vast vast majority of Irish lads up to that go to England. There was no rush to judge, i have my mind made up about this a good while back, it was TASE running down someone for NOT including LOI players as possible Internationals that i was responding to.
I daresay i have seen as much LOI and lower league football as yourself. I also know a number of players involved in both levels, and would listen to what they have to say. The thing is i was interested in debate, but you were only interested in running down my opinion with your usual soccer snobery. Because you watch a few different leagues doesn’t mean what you have to say on the Irish team, or the standard of our own league is anymore correct than mine, but you seem to think it is. I would take a far bigger interest in some of the lower league Irish lads than any Bundasliga or the sort.
Anyway, you answered my question, and you agree with me, there are no LOI players presently good enough for our National team. Cheers. Maybe you should debate it with TASE, he thinks there is.
my point about LOI players is that there is skillful players there that can make the step up- it has happened with all the players that I named(there are probably more than 7). they may not be immediately ready to play for Ireland but they have the raw talent to do so. Coleman for example was never touted as a potential international 18 months ago when he played LOI yet now he is the hot young thing in Irish football. naturally enough thats because he wasnt proven at a high level but there is no reason why there isnt more players like him now floating around.
Ah look you’re losing the run of yourself here.
My point is simply that there is a far bigger world out there than England and we’d be far better off if we had more guys playing football around Europe and if our own league was better than relying on the likes of Barnet to produce international players for Ireland. England is not “where they need to to play for our National team” whether you like it or not.
You weren’t interested in debate. You haven’t a clue how to debate. You state opinions as categorical facts, much like your replica in Sydney, e.g. “LOI is below League 2 level now Larry, weather you like to admit that or not.”
I agree with that possibility, but they need to be young and stand out. But Colemans are rare, and he is very different to Doyle or Hunt. I believe he only started the game properly at 16, so he was clearly a good athlete, but a late developer at soccer.
Anyway, i hope there are a few more Colemans, be great if there are, but they are not standing out right now.
I thought this was a thread to highlight the outstanding feats of the diaspora.
The failure to debate shit should be taken elsewhere.
You didn’t make that point at all, you just wanted to attack my point, which i should clearly have expanded on. Players are not going to go around europe too much, as the language barrier is not something many european clubs would be interested in sorting out when they generally have plenty lads themselves.
And we (FAI) are simply unable to consistently have a decent domestic professional league. So England & Scotland is where its at most of the time. Because of the money and the international nature of the EPL at the moment the best options outside of the odd really good player is Championship or lower, or the SPL. Thats the way it is, and its only going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.
Is it now your contention that European clubs outside of England don’t buy players from outside their own country?
Who said anything about buying players? I’m talking about young players going to non english speaking countries. :rolleyes:
But carry on…
You did. Or maybe you think players move for no wages and no compensation to the developing club? You’re frankly talking through your hole. Clubs in holland and Belgium and France and Germany and Portugal etc all sign guys of different nationalities with different language skills. The fact you are unaware of that doesn’t make it untrue.
We are talking about irish player rocko, irish players. It doesn’t happen.