[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 1068244, member: 273â]In the first year.
Point is they may make others up their game[/QUOTE]
that would be an odd reason for sky to show something
By Paul Keane
Talented teenagers in the GAA are playing for as many as 10 teams at any one time and regularly training twice a day to serve their many masters.
The revelations are contained in a report into minor activity in the GAA which concludes that the current level of application by many players is âunsustainableâ.
Micheal Martin chaired the work group and worryingly revealed how itâs not unusual to find young players training or playing as often as 12 times in a nine-day period.
The report comes in the wake of pundit Joe Brollyâs claim that GAA players are âlittle more now than indentured slavesâ because of the commitments demanded of them.
The committee has proposed that, in future, minor players be barred from playing at U21 or senior level in the same year.
At club level, itâs recommended that only players who are in their final year of minor â they must be âover 17â â be allowed play in adult competition.
The committee also want to overhaul the current minor schedule to include a provision for more midweek fixtures and the scrapping of All-Ireland football quarter-finals.
A separate proposal to standardise the format of the minor provincial football championships and offer every team a second chance if they lose their opening game, is part of the reasoning for getting rid of All-Ireland quarter-finals.
Elsewhere in the document, it is advised that a more âequitable systemâ be adopted to accommodate Galway and Antrim at minor hurling level and give both a second opportunity, if required.
But the general theme of the document is that too much of a burden is placed on young players and that something must be done to avoid burnout or players simply giving up.
âThere are players doing 12 sessions in nine days and maybe even more in some situations,â said Martin.
âTheyâre training twice a day and have no chance of recovery. These players are being asked to do too much. It is just unsustainable.
âItâs certainly unsustainable at minor level and there are issues at U21 level. We have acknowledged that the U21 level needs to be looked at in our report as well.
âI managed my own (senior) club team last year and it is difficult, Iâve seen it myself, club players are finding it very difficult and we have to strike a balance.â
The 14-man minor review committee, which included Gaelic Players Association chief Dessie Farrell, consulted widely and produced an interim report last August which allowed for stakeholders to give feedback.
More than a dozen players aged between 17-22, including Clareâs Podge Collins, Wexfordâs Matthew OâHanlon and Louth footballer Ryan Burns, who have experienced difficulties of extensive activity at underage level, contributed to the document.
âMatthew OâHanlon was involved with 10 teams at minor,â said committee member Ger Ryan. âHe was a dual player at inter-county level, then with the club he was playing at three levels in hurling and football and also at school. That made up 10 teams.
âI donât see how thatâs physically possible. Managers in some cases are enlightened but in other cases theyâre saying to the player, âyou have to give your priority to our teamâ.
âThe other thing is that we have to look at players as individuals. We hear about this one size fits all training, teams training X number of times per week and every player having to do the same thing. But this is a collection of 30, 35 players and all their needs arenât the same. Again, on the more enlightened panels, youâll get a reflection of clear thinking but too often itâs one size fits all and the individual player has to be seen to be there all the time. Iâd ask the question, is that necessary?
âIf a school asks a guy to train at half 7 in the morning and a county panel ask him to train at half 7 in the evening, heâs not going to say, ânoâ. He might also be doing his Leaving Cert.
âSo he leaves home at maybe half 6 and he mightnât be home until, say, 10 at night. And what is his nutrition like throughout the day? I think there are a whole raft of issues.â
Martin believes it is a reasonable and pragmatic report and that the proposals stand a good chance of being voted through Congress late next month.
âI donât think this is a radical report, I think itâs reasonable,â said Martin. âAll of the proposals are reasonable ones that will make a difference.
âI would be very hopeful about its chances. The one thing weâve found is that counties acknowledge that there is a problem. And what weâre trying to do is propose solutions.â
[QUOTE=âChocolateMice, post: 1069348, member: 168â]By Paul Keane
Talented teenagers in the GAA are playing for as many as 10 teams at any one time and regularly training twice a day to serve their many masters.
The revelations are contained in a report into minor activity in the GAA which concludes that the current level of application by many players is âunsustainableâ.
Micheal Martin chaired the work group and worryingly revealed how itâs not unusual to find young players training or playing as often as 12 times in a nine-day period.
The report comes in the wake of pundit Joe Brollyâs claim that GAA players are âlittle more now than indentured slavesâ because of the commitments demanded of them.
The committee has proposed that, in future, minor players be barred from playing at U21 or senior level in the same year.
At club level, itâs recommended that only players who are in their final year of minor â they must be âover 17â â be allowed play in adult competition.
The committee also want to overhaul the current minor schedule to include a provision for more midweek fixtures and the scrapping of All-Ireland football quarter-finals.
A separate proposal to standardise the format of the minor provincial football championships and offer every team a second chance if they lose their opening game, is part of the reasoning for getting rid of All-Ireland quarter-finals.
Elsewhere in the document, it is advised that a more âequitable systemâ be adopted to accommodate Galway and Antrim at minor hurling level and give both a second opportunity, if required.
But the general theme of the document is that too much of a burden is placed on young players and that something must be done to avoid burnout or players simply giving up.
âThere are players doing 12 sessions in nine days and maybe even more in some situations,â said Martin.
âTheyâre training twice a day and have no chance of recovery. These players are being asked to do too much. It is just unsustainable.
âItâs certainly unsustainable at minor level and there are issues at U21 level. We have acknowledged that the U21 level needs to be looked at in our report as well.
âI managed my own (senior) club team last year and it is difficult, Iâve seen it myself, club players are finding it very difficult and we have to strike a balance.â
The 14-man minor review committee, which included Gaelic Players Association chief Dessie Farrell, consulted widely and produced an interim report last August which allowed for stakeholders to give feedback.
More than a dozen players aged between 17-22, including Clareâs Podge Collins, Wexfordâs Matthew OâHanlon and Louth footballer Ryan Burns, who have experienced difficulties of extensive activity at underage level, contributed to the document.
âMatthew OâHanlon was involved with 10 teams at minor,â said committee member Ger Ryan. âHe was a dual player at inter-county level, then with the club he was playing at three levels in hurling and football and also at school. That made up 10 teams.
âI donât see how thatâs physically possible. Managers in some cases are enlightened but in other cases theyâre saying to the player, âyou have to give your priority to our teamâ.
âThe other thing is that we have to look at players as individuals. We hear about this one size fits all training, teams training X number of times per week and every player having to do the same thing. But this is a collection of 30, 35 players and all their needs arenât the same. Again, on the more enlightened panels, youâll get a reflection of clear thinking but too often itâs one size fits all and the individual player has to be seen to be there all the time. Iâd ask the question, is that necessary?
âIf a school asks a guy to train at half 7 in the morning and a county panel ask him to train at half 7 in the evening, heâs not going to say, ânoâ. He might also be doing his Leaving Cert.
âSo he leaves home at maybe half 6 and he mightnât be home until, say, 10 at night. And what is his nutrition like throughout the day? I think there are a whole raft of issues.â
Martin believes it is a reasonable and pragmatic report and that the proposals stand a good chance of being voted through Congress late next month.
âI donât think this is a radical report, I think itâs reasonable,â said Martin. âAll of the proposals are reasonable ones that will make a difference.
âI would be very hopeful about its chances. The one thing weâve found is that counties acknowledge that there is a problem. And what weâre trying to do is propose solutions.â[/QUOTE]
Lists hijack brainâs neural circuitry
I contributed to that report. I do think it can be worked, but only if the teams involved are willing to make it work. Players on 10 teams is a load of shite and shouldnt be let happen. Clubs are the worst for it, making players play on adult teams in shitty challenge games or unimportant league games. some of the reccommendations put forward should help. Minors need protecting at this time, if they are out every night of the week it does no one any good. Thats why if a player wants to be a dual player, all of the teams he is with needs to pull in the one direction.
Were you really involved in putting the report together?
I was involved in certain reports and data that went into it. I know the chair of the group, I wasnt one of the 14 that is mentioned.
I agree with the main issues, but I hope the final committee took into account that young lads coming through to Minor level are the lifeblood of many small rural clubs. For instance, a stand alone Junior or Intermediate club will be in serious trouble if Minors are now not available to their adult teams.
In my own experience, I saw what the injection of youth did for my own club last year. We slowly introduced a 17 year old to games, he fitted in immediately to the extent he could not be overlooked as a starter later in the year.
I really think this report has totally overlooked the smaller club here, young talented players will always make Senior grade from an early age because they have the drive & talent. In my case, this year we have 3 or 4 young lads out of U16 who are excited to be able to progress to the adult set up ( Junior Level ). These lads by ability alone will make the panel or team easily, in fact with an ageing squad they will be invaluable. But this initiative could very well put a serious spanner in our works this year, as well as disappoint the fuck out of young eager players.
[QUOTE=âcarryharry, post: 1069453, member: 1517â]@Gman
I agree with the main issues, but I hope the final committee took into account that young lads coming through to Minor level are the lifeblood of many small rural clubs. For instance, a stand alone Junior or Intermediate club will be in serious trouble if Minors are now not available to their adult teams.
In my own experience, I saw what the injection of youth did for my own club last year. We slowly introduced a 17 year old to games, he fitted in immediately to the extent he could not be overlooked as a starter later in the year.
I really think this report has totally overlooked the smaller club here, young talented players will always make Senior grade from an early age because they have the drive & talent. In my case, this year we have 3 or 4 young lads out of U16 who are excited to be able to progress to the adult set up ( Junior Level ). These lads by ability alone will make the panel or team easily, in fact with an ageing squad they will be invaluable. But this initiative could very well put a serious spanner in our works this year, as well as disappoint the fuck out of young eager players.[/QUOTE]
you were yea
cool
[QUOTE=âcarryharry, post: 1069453, member: 1517â]@Gman
I agree with the main issues, but I hope the final committee took into account that young lads coming through to Minor level are the lifeblood of many small rural clubs. For instance, a stand alone Junior or Intermediate club will be in serious trouble if Minors are now not available to their adult teams.
In my own experience, I saw what the injection of youth did for my own club last year. We slowly introduced a 17 year old to games, he fitted in immediately to the extent he could not be overlooked as a starter later in the year.
I really think this report has totally overlooked the smaller club here, young talented players will always make Senior grade from an early age because they have the drive & talent. In my case, this year we have 3 or 4 young lads out of U16 who are excited to be able to progress to the adult set up ( Junior Level ). These lads by ability alone will make the panel or team easily, in fact with an ageing squad they will be invaluable. But this initiative could very well put a serious spanner in our works this year, as well as disappoint the fuck out of young eager players.[/QUOTE]
you should read the report again, they are saying players in their final year of minor not to play senior. I dont think thats too unreasonable. And if a club suffers because of one year of players not being available, then they are at nothing anyway. heaps of players played junior level for their clubs when they were young. I think I was 15 when I played my first adult game. looking back, that was fucking stupid, and shouldnt have been in that situation.
they are looking at the players point of view first, club second. If you dog these young lads when they are 16/17, then they will give up on it anyway. the drop out of players as they pass minor is huge, and it should be a gradual process, not being thrown in at the deep end and fucked up long term then. lads at that age have enough going on without having to be on adult club teams too.
Yes, but I think they are looking at âeliteâ young players who are involved in Co Teams which obviously puts the overload on them. Again, the club is the one taking the flak IMO. If a club is lucky enough to have a young player good enough to represent their County then the likelihood is that they wonât see that much of him anyway due to commitments placed upon him by Co Teams.
I saw first hand last year, a player being asked to play a challenge for the County Team on the morning of an important final for his club team. He explained his situation to the Co Manager, he was told to tog & play or his place was under serious scrutiny.
In short, the idea is good. But itâs implementation will hinder more than it will help IMO.
Well that manager was wrong, and thatâs where the biggest problems lie. By the same token, I saw a chap who was 16 last year being utterly dogged, and ended up going from game to game and physio in between just to keep him OK for the games. Heâs still not right, but yet will be expected to line out at minor, 21 and senior in both codes, as well as school and county. That wonât work, and heâll end up worse for it.
Again, you are only talking about one years worth of players not eligible. If a club canât survive because they canât play under 17s then there is a bigger problem at play.
@carryharry is spot on. Rural clubs have been hugely affected by emmigration in past few years. IF these clubs were unable to select minors they would struggle to field a team in many cases. In addition, some of these players can make a huge difference as to whether a club is competitive or not. If clubs become uncompetitive, they will lose players of all ages.
The rule about minors should be restricted to senior clubs IMHO.
[QUOTE=âGman, post: 1069493, member: 112â]
If a club canât survive because they canât play under 17s then there is a bigger problem at play.[/QUOTE]
The fact they are a small club.
This rule is aimed at reducing the load on a small percentage of players ( highly talented ) who will always play more games due to their exceptional talents. I really donât buy into the idea of young players walking away from games due to burnout either tbh. IMO, they either give up due to lifestyle changes or mainly due to lack of progress due to lack of talent to progress.
It canât work Gman at county level, at this point in time anyway.
I mean how obvious does it have to be?
Itâs failing miserably at clubs all over the place now where teams have sizable dual players. County players havenât a hope.
With 2 accommodating managers in Cork last year it failed miserably.
I agree playing friendlies with the club is mad, but that doesnât happen anymore of anyone I know.
But for Cork and Kerry clubs for instance the league is taken fairly seriously and county players often line out.
It seems to me the mental side of it, as well as the life outside of GAA is being completely ignored continually.
Using 19 year olds as barometers is also a recipe for disaster, they are willing to do anything.
Players need to pick one sport, and if they are available to play something with the 2nd sport and everyone is agreeable then grand play that.
But these lads need a certain amount of availability to their club.
Itâs not working, itâs inly going to get worse, an it will never work. Unless, possibly, they emit people like me to centrally manage players, training, workload etc et.
But even at that I think itâs one if the stupidest things in world sport. They are amateurs FFS.
[QUOTE=âGman, post: 1069473, member: 112â]you should read the report again, they are saying players in their final year of minor not to play senior. I dont think thats too unreasonable. And if a club suffers because of one year of players not being available, then they are at nothing anyway. heaps of players played junior level for their clubs when they were young. I think I was 15 when I played my first adult game. looking back, that was fucking stupid, and shouldnt have been in that situation.
they are looking at the players point of view first, club second. If you dog these young lads when they are 16/17, then they will give up on it anyway. the drop out of players as they pass minor is huge, and it should be a gradual process, not being thrown in at the deep end and fucked up long term then. lads at that age have enough going on without having to be on adult club teams too.[/QUOTE]
I agree to an extent, but a county minor needs to be available to his minor team. Have no problem with them not playing adult. Itâs only a year to wait. Itâs 2 less teams he ha to play with (in a dual club) once he is out of minor, as no doubt heâs a leading U21 as well.
[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 1069507, member: 273â]It canât work Gman at county level, at this point in time anyway.
I mean how obvious does it have to be?
Itâs failing miserably at clubs all over the place now where teams have sizable dual players. County players havenât a hope.
With 2 accommodating managers in Cork last year it failed miserably.
I agree playing friendlies with the club is mad, but that doesnât happen anymore of anyone I know.
But for Cork and Kerry clubs for instance the league is taken fairly seriously and county players often line out.
It seems to me the mental side of it, as well as the life outside of GAA is being completely ignored continually.
Using 19 year olds as barometers is also a recipe for disaster, they are willing to do anything.
Players need to pick one sport, and if they are available to play something with the 2nd sport and everyone is agreeable then grand play that.
But these lads need a certain amount of availability to their club.
Itâs not working, itâs inly going to get worse, an it will never work. Unless, possibly, they emit people like me to centrally manage players, training, workload etc et.
But even at that I think itâs one if the stupidest things in world sport. They are amateurs FFS.[/QUOTE]
Iâve always said it wouldnât work at senior county level. And Iâve always said the opportunity should be made available to underage players, whether they take that up or not is another thing. There are proceedures in place in some counties for a centralized person to oversee the training load on a player. I also think each county and club is different, and there is on magic catch all template that can be just rolled out everywhere.
No, obviously not, county size etc matters.
However that central person has to be able to over rule a county minor manager, that isnât happening in places. Cork operate completely independently.
Its really only a dual county issue though from that POV. I donât think its in anyway ideal, but if they are really determined to be dual, then sports science has to take over.
Its splitting everywhere though, most big senior clubs are either battling in vain to remain dual, while others now have completely different squads.
It wouldnât surprise me if our club had a break away, such is the divide now.
To be honest though, for elite players, the standard LTPD sports science advice is to play as many sports as makes sense to 16, and then specialise. Counties like Wexford may just have to make the call on what they want to be best at, or force the hand of parents and kids earlier. Everyone gets up in arms about this, that its very hard on the kid etc, but its quite a common question thats answered all over the world these days. Rugby in Ireland has no problem asking the kids to make the choice.
I think it has to go that way.
[QUOTE=âfenwaypark, post: 1069504, member: 276â]@carryharry is spot on. Rural clubs have been hugely affected by emmigration in past few years. IF these clubs were unable to select minors they would struggle to field a team in many cases. In addition, some of these players can make a huge difference as to whether a club is competitive or not. If clubs become uncompetitive, they will lose players of all ages.
The rule about minors should be restricted to senior clubs IMHO.[/QUOTE]
Ya, good point and idea.