No they won 8 balls. the full back line breaking it and others picking it up is still them winning them and as you said yourself is a skill in itself.
You’re right on the goal chance though. hurley’s miss in particular was a good chance. Should also have had a penalty for a foul on Sheehan in second half. still though the stats and a look back at the video will prove the Dubs full back line didn’t do all that badly against the aerial bombardment. The couple of spectacular catches from sheehan made it seem like they did which has always been a problem with post match gaa analysis over the years. Thinking such and such lorded it at centre back cos of a few big catches when really stats will tell a different story and he might have only got the ball five times.
[quote=“Tabby, post: 813346, member: 2142”]No they won 8 balls. the full back line breaking it and others picking it up is still them winning them and as you said yourself is a skill in itself.
You’re right on the goal chance though. hurley’s miss in particular was a good chance. Should also have had a penalty for a foul on Sheehan in second half. still though the stats and a look back at the video will prove the Dubs full back line didn’t do all that badly against the aerial bombardment. The couple of spectacular catches from sheehan made it seem like they did which has always been a problem with post match gaa analysis over the years. Thinking such and such lorded it at centre back cos of a few big catches when really stats will tell a different story and he might have only got the ball five times.[/quote]
I’ll agree to a degree, but winning that much clean ball and creating chances from it is being taken to the cleaners. It’s football, 1-2 goals will win most games. Mannion, as was correctly pointed out to me did only one really good standout thing and he only had one real good clean delivery and win for about 25 mins, but tht got the goal. The goal created the buffer and is what creates this chasism that makes Saturday nights game look to people as if it was comfortable for the Dubs. It certainly was not that till about 55-60 mins when they got the goal and to grips (goal was earlier I realise) with Corks long ball. The ideal scenario was Cork at around the 40-45 min mark should have started running at Dublin to stretch them and make them think more. This lack of invention, weather you blame a management team or the players, allied to the fact Dublin were just playing better and collectively wanted it more is the main difference between the teams.
But I don’t think there is as much between them as being made out, I read in the past few days that Cork are barely a top 8 team now. It’s terrific bull shit. Any of the top teams well rested and injury free are capable of winning All Itelands. Mor teams are establishing themselves and realise what’s needed to be successful. Whoever wins it this year is nearly certain of not winning it next year. It’s almost now that if you can win 2 in 3 years you can be called a great team, it’s that hard. We’re the Dubs to win this year, even allowing for influx of talent, it will be a great trial of them. Same for Donegal next year.
He had a point about the rules, personalising it the way he did has just diminished the argument. Saw a stat yesterday and the tackle was Cavanaghs only committed foul in the game. Now poor and all as it was that is hardly serial cynical play.
Brolly was on Matt Cooper yesterday and he spoke unbelievably passionately and emotionally about the organ donor project he is involved in, was barely holding it together. I’d say he is wound fairly tight at the minute. He just lost the plot Saturday night.
Of course you could also take the view he is a barrister, and he is trained to take a view and argue it to death regardless of his own opinion. Moral indignation being a core skill in the profession
BTW. Did they even show a replay of the foul on RTE after the game? Not sure they did
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 813368, member: 273”]I’ll agree to a degree, but winning that much clean ball and creating chances from it is being taken to the cleaners. It’s football, 1-2 goals will win most games. Mannion, as was correctly pointed out to me did only one really good standout thing and he only had one real good clean delivery and win for about 25 mins, but tht got the goal. The goal created the buffer and is what creates this chasism that makes Saturday nights game look to people as if it was comfortable for the Dubs. It certainly was not that till about 55-60 mins when they got the goal and to grips (goal was earlier I realise) with Corks long ball. The ideal scenario was Cork at around the 40-45 min mark should have started running at Dublin to stretch them and make them think more. This lack of invention, weather you blame a management team or the players, allied to the fact Dublin were just playing better and collectively wanted it more is the main difference between the teams.
But I don’t think there is as much between them as being made out, I read in the past few days that Cork are barely a top 8 team now. It’s terrific bull shit. Any of the top teams well rested and injury free are capable of winning All Itelands. Mor teams are establishing themselves and realise what’s needed to be successful. Whoever wins it this year is nearly certain of not winning it next year. It’s almost now that if you can win 2 in 3 years you can be called a great team, it’s that hard. We’re the Dubs to win this year, even allowing for influx of talent, it will be a great trial of them. Same for Donegal next year.[/quote]
Who are the contenders for the job? Who will get it? And who would you give it to?
[quote=“dancarter, post: 813373, member: 122”]He had a point about the rules, personalising it the way he did has just diminished the argument. Saw a stat yesterday and the tackle was Cavanaghs only committed foul in the game. Now poor and all as it was that is hardly serial cynical play.
[/quote]
What about when you put it with his two rugby tackles against meath last week and his dive to get a fella booked on Saturday?
Surely it’s Cutbert. Anyone else wouldn’t make sense. Him and Ronan McCarthy were brought in for a reason, would be strange to go for anyone else. Neither have pissed off te County Board too much either, if at all.
Cleary is another candidate especially having dropped the 21’s, but he may just become part of the team.
Would be good if they got Kevin Murray in as the trainer, he has done a savage job with UCC the last few years.
Donegal were never going to retain the all ireland with the squad of players they had…too hard to do with such a small squad that lacked any real depth of talent…the signs were there from the first day in ballybofey against tyrone…tyrone were on top for most that game but couldn´t finish…yet the media went in to overdrive when donegal came out on top…donegal limped into the 1/4 finals and got pummelled by a team at the top of their game and out for revenge…Mcguinness is still a great manager…he got the last ounce out of that team and the test was always going to come after their invincibility was shattered by monaghan…they had nothing left mentally or physically …ok enough to beat Laois but seriously…the worst team they could have got was mayo…a team totally on top of their game at present and fresh from sauntering through connaucht…they had also the incentive of revenge for last year…i´d say Mcguinness and gallagher were more trying to stirr the shit to get a reaction from their players as they could see they were stale…
[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde][SIZE=5][FONT=Tw Cen MT]If the All Stars were picked now[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]07 August 2013[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
[LEFT][SIZE=3][FONT=Avant Garde]http://hoganstand.com/Common/NewGallery/all%20star%20picture%202013.jpg[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
[LEFT][SIZE=3][FONT=Avant Garde]All Stars all ©INPHO/James Crombie[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]As the All-Ireland SFC race reaches boiling point, hoganstand.com selects its All Stars football team to date. With the semi-finals and final still to play, there is still time for All Stars to be won - and lost.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]1. Stephen Cluxton (Dublin)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]The Dublin captain already has a fifth All Star in the bag thanks to his heroics at both ends of pitch. Gaelic football has never seen a goalkeeper quite like him in that he dictates the play from his kick-outs and is one of the best free-takers in the business.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Monaghan’s Rory Beggan - who is no mean free-taker himself - had the distinction of not conceding a goal in the championship, and Niall Morgan looked to be Tyrone’s answer to Cluxton before injury cut short his season. But the only question that remains to be answered is whether or not the Parnell’s clubman will be the first goalkeeper since Offaly’s Martin Furlong in 1982 to be honoured with the Footballer of the Year award.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]2. Keith Higgins (Mayo)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]The Ballyhaunis clubman is well on his way to collecting his second successive All Star gong. Higgins’ versatility means he can play in virtually any position as we saw last Sunday when he lined out in the half forward line.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Cork’s Eoin Cadogan and Meath’s Donal Keoghan will have their supporters, but it’s Higgins for us.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]3. Conor Gormley (Tyrone)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]The full back position looks to be a straight shootout between Gormley and incumbent Ger Cafferkey. The Mayo man hasn’t put a foot wrong, but the wily Gormley has excelled in both the sweeper and full back roles for Tyrone this season. His marking job on Monaghan’s Kieran Hughes last Saturday was highly impressive.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Other number threes worthy of a mention are Cork’s Michael Shields, Galway’s Finian Hanley, Tyrone’s Ciaran Clarke and Rory Dunne of Cavan.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]4. Marc O Se (Kerry)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]No All Star selection would be complete with O Se, who remains one of the best man-markers in the game. He does his job quietly and effectively, and will have a key role to play for the Kingdom in their forthcoming All-Ireland semi-final against the Dubs.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Chris Barrett has had a great season for Mayo and along with Monaghan’s Drew Wylie looks to be O Se’s main rival for the last slot in the full back line.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]5. Colm Boyle (Mayo)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Ask any Mayo supporter who the team’s most consistent performer has been this year and they will tell you Colm Boyle. The Davitts man has played out of his skin in the Connacht men’s march to another All-Ireland semi-final.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]James McCarthy has had an excellent season for Dublin too, Gary Sice was superb for Galway in the qualifiers, but Boyle is in pole position for the All Star at this stage.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]6. Donal Vaughan (Mayo)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Dublin’s Ger Brennan looked a nailed on certainty for the centre back position earlier in the season, but it would appear he has been overtaken by Vaughan who produced a magnificent display against Donegal. Vaughan isn’t just a great defender; he’s also a major attacking threat to the opposition as we saw last Sunday when he scored a 13th minute goal and teed up Cillian O’Connor for another.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Tyrone’s Peter Harte has been very impressive also, Mark Lynch was Derry’s best player, but Vaughan is the man for us as things stand.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]7. Jack McCaffrey (Dublin)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]No contest this one. The 20-year-old from Clontarf has been a revelation in his first season on the Dublin senior team and is already a shoo-in for the Young Player of the Year award. Like Vaughan, McCaffrey is a huge threat going forward and scored one of the goals of the season against Cork last weekend. But it’s his explosive pace which makes him such a special talent.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Lee Keegan is having another fine season for Mayo, Monaghan’s Dessie Mone had a terrific Ulster final, Peter O’Leary has done well for Kerry also, but McCaffrey has been simply outstanding.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]8. Aidan O’Shea (Mayo)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Most would agree that the Breaffy man is the top midfielder in the country bar none. Such was his magnificence against Donegal last Sunday that he received a standing ovation after he was sent off on a second yellow card in injury-time.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Michael Darragh Macauley (Dublin), Anthony Maher (Kerry), Aidan Walsh (Cork), Tomas Flynn (Galway), David Givney (Cavan), John O’Loughlin (Laois) and Mark Gottsche (London) have also caught the eye, but none of them are in the same league as O’Shea, who is the best centre fielder we’ve seen since Darragh O Se.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]9. Sean Cavanagh (Tyrone)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Another automatic choice. While it’s unlikely he will be getting any Christmas cards from Joe Brolly following his controversial rugby tackle on Conor McManus last Saturday, what is certain is that he will be in CityWest picking up his fifth All Star award in about 10 weeks from now.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Cavanagh’s athleticism, work-rate and ability to kick points on the run has been a feature of the Red Hands’ march to the last four. Not even Monaghan’s Darren Hughes, who was an All-Star contender himself going into last weekend’s game, could stay with him.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]10. Cian Mackey (Cavan)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Cavan have had a fairytale season and the heartbeat of their team has been Mackey, who impressed in all seven of their championship outings. The Castlerahan man is a manager’s dream in that he is a real team player who never stops working. His goals against Armagh and Derry will help his cause as he bids to become the Breffni County’s first All Star since Dermot McCabe in 1997.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Mackey’s main rival would appear to be last year’s All Star number 10, Paul Flynn, who continues to show a huge appetite for work. If Dublin go on to win Sam, don’t be surprised to see the Fingallians man in the All Star team again. Mayo’s Kevin McLoughlin is another who could be in the shake-up.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]11. Colm Cooper (Kerry)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]The ‘Gooch’ is revelling in his new role on the ‘40’. In RTE’s first televised championship match of the season, he treated viewers to an exhibition of centre forward play against Tipperary. Kerry are now where they want to be and if Cooper can produce the goods against Dublin, another All Star will almost certainly be his.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]If not, Alan Dillon (Mayo) and Ciaran Kilkenny (Dublin) will be waiting to pounce.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]12. Ciaran Kilkenny (Dublin)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Assuming that Cooper is going to be picked at number 11, it’s likely that Kilkenny will be accommodated in one of the wing forward positions. The Castleknock playmaker has been simply too good to leave out of the 2013 selection. His decision to return from Aussie Rules has given Dublin a huge boost, with his Leinster final performance against Meath being one of the top individual displays of the year.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Ironically, Meath’s Graham Reilly had been the best number 12 in the country going into that game, but disappointing showings against the Dubs and Tyrone scuppered his All Star hopes. And after his display against Cavan, Kerry’s Donnchadh Walsh could be coming with a late charge.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]13. Cillian O’Connor (Mayo)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Impossible to look past the gifted Ballintubber clubman who has been scoring for fun since returning from a shoulder injury. Followed up his 3-3 against London in the Connacht final with an even bigger haul - 3-4 - against the All-Ireland champions. Who said Mayo haven’t got scoring forwards?[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Johnny Doyle was as reliable as ever for Kildare, Darren McCurry has shone for Tyrone, while Mickey Newman was a real find for Meath. And while it was a disappointing season for Donegal, Paddy McBrearty’s man of the match display against Tyrone shouldn’t be forgotten.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]14. Kieran Hughes (Monaghan)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Monaghan’s best hope of winning an All Star perhaps rests with the young Scotstown clubman who was their scoring star in their famous Ulster final victory over Donegal. It’s unfortunate that his season ended with a sending off against Tyrone because he was having a great one.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Daniel Goulding was Cork’s go-to-man in their run to the All-Ireland quarter-final, while Mayo’s Alan Freeman still has at least one more chance to prove he’s All Star material. And Eoin Bradley had some very good performances for Derry.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]15. Paul Mannion (Dublin)[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]The Kilmacud Crokes clubman has enjoyed a dream debut season at corner forward for the Dubs. Croke Park is the perfect setting for the nifty 19-year-old to display his repertoire of skills. A lethal finisher, he has even managed to outshine Bernard Brogan this year.[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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[LEFT][SIZE=4][FONT=Avant Garde]Another pair of young guns, Eamonn Wallace from Meath and Cork’s Brian Hurley, Monaghan free-taker Conor McManus, Galway’s fit-again talisman Michael Meehan and Cavan’s Martin Dunne - who is the championship’s top scorer to date - also deserve a mention. - See more at: http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=198301#sthash.qPZzhMVO.dpuf[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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That article is awful.
Gooch gave an exhibition against Tipp - ffs sake
Boyle is Mayos most consistent player - they’ve only played 1 proper match.
I hope the lad on summer placement who wrote it improves before he does his Leaving.
Marc? What?
You might point out where you highlighted all this on here before the match on Sunday.
No Mattie Donnelly?
What an idiot.
i first made my opinions on donegal´s known on page 16 of this thread on may 25th pal…later compared them to Armagh of old with all the hype/bullshit that was coming out about them…
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 813312, member: 273”]
Kick outs and breaks are not as important in general Gaelic football these days, except arguably against Cork.[/quote]
Ah here. :rolleyes:
They are not Glas.
The stats show a total different story when peeled back. Even back along. Teams were winning the midfield battle (Cork being the best example) and losing big games.
It’s what you do with the ball is a far more important stat, and where you start your attacks from (the more varied the better) and are you stopping the opposition from starting their attacks from where they normally score. Only Cork in recent years were getting scores regularly from kickouts. I’m impressed with Dublin in how they are more flexible than before.
Dublin have scored well this year early in the year, but mostly from their own kickouts.
Study the stats an pattern of play Glas, it’s very interesting.
A teams doesn’t just take stats in a game now of breaks/shots/possessions. They will have specific game to game stats built for different opposition.
The “break” has far you much luck imvolved in it to be made too important a stat. Clean possession is a rarity, but needs to be backed up with support.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 813851, member: 273”]
The “break” has far you much luck imvolved in it to be made too important a stat.[/quote]
i don´t know kev…certain players are masters at picking up breaks…Galvin , for one, in his pomp was a master at it…its all about timing i think…
I´m glad you are beginning to see cian o sullivans worth too…
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 813851, member: 273”]They are not Glas.
The stats show a total different story when peeled back. Even back along. Teams were winning the midfield battle (Cork being the best example) and losing big games.
[/quote]
I agree with your general point, it was the except cork part I took issue with really. Your second point above about cork winning midfield but losing games would seem to contradict your earlier point that winning kick outs is especially important against cork.
It does in a way, but you shut cork down completely if you avoid that “run on” from the middle of the pitch from cork mostly from kickouts you really stifled them. Most teams failed to do that. What happened after that was Corks issue when they lost games they should have won or made harder work of games they did win. These issues evolved over the years, from poor shooting to running into traffics to over passing. Self inflected really.
Alot of teams have started making their attacks from somewhere else and different game situations. Cork haven’t adapted.
[quote=“scumpot, post: 813855, member: 182”]i don´t know kev…certain players are masters at picking up breaks…Galvin , for one, in his pomp was a master at it…its all about timing i think…
I´m glad you are beginning to see cian o sullivans worth too…[/quote]
Always saw him as excellent player, he was struggling at midfield. He got hammered in the air for 2 games and his positioning in ghe ground was not good. He’s not really an Ariel threat still, but his positioning was way better and his drive was superb. He gained confidence from Alan O Connor being so stuck to the ground and took advantage.
He will get bigger tests from Buckley, although I would put him on Maher who isn’t as mobile and try and get MDM taking Buckley away from the Dublin half of the field where Buckley is dangerous.