As Sinn Féin grows in popularity in the South, a subversive element is increasingly revealed, but not one that SF’s detractors have in mind.
In the wake of the local and European elections, Colm Keena, in ‘The Irish Times’ (June 11th), warns that it is ‘a great risk’ to believe Gerry Adams’s ‘stated allegiance to democratic politics’. After the silly, ahistorical charge that Adams ‘injected the virus of violence’ into the gerrymander of the pre-Civil Rights North, he warns that SF’s electoral success may boost this ‘militant nationalist tradition’ which is ‘a menace…we should eradicate’. ‘People who voted Sinn Fein need to pay serious heed to these dangers’.
Such wildly anti-SF colour is more associated with ‘Independent News & Media’. Indeed, an extraordinary ‘Sunday Independent’ editorial (May 25th) demanded that RTE and the Government assume the responsibility of aiding its campaign to stop SF. ‘We cannot continue to roll a rock up a hill alone’ (an infelicitous invocation of Sisyphean futility). At the final SF press-conference before those elections, amid questions on economic and European policies, the INM journalist present asked only questions about Lord Mountbatten.
The insinuation is that it is not legitimate for Adams to politically pursue his goals. It is more openly expressed in ‘Irish Times’ letters calling for the scrapping of the Belfast Agreement provision for Irish Unity (Dick Keane, June 9th), decrying this ‘deeply destabilizing goal… which can only lead to a return of violence’ (Andy Pollak, May 31st).
Ironically, such attempts to stymie democratic discourse, and the rule of law, are subversive. It is for the Irish people to decide electoral outcomes for Sinn Fein. The Belfast Agreement is an international Treaty. It had referendum approval. It is law. Doubly ironic, it was the subversion of democracy and the rule of law by Unionist paramilitaries, and the ‘Curragh Mutiny’, exploited by the Tories for short-term gain, that ‘injected the virus of violence’ into mainstream Twentieth Century Irish politics. ‘The North Began’, as Eoin MacNeill put it. Historian Ronan Fanning speaks of being in the centennial decade of the British Establishment taking us all down that ‘Fatal Path’ (see his recent book of that title).
A further irony is that such subversive self-styled guardianship of democracy bolsters the logic of actual militarist nationalists, like the ‘Dissidents’, who claim ‘democracy’ is currently a sham.
Fair criticism is a beneficial analytical workout, making policy fitter. However, this is an attempt by the 26 County Establishment, including some media, to distort the debate. This prevents fair airing of Republican alternatives to the inequality (re: healthcare, national self-determination, education, etc.) which has been so disastrous economically, and in even more profound ways.
This chimes with the Taoiseach’s habit of answering Dáil questions about health, etc., with irrelevant and tawdry Troubles-victim toting.
It is a selfish shielding of the Irish establishment’s Thatcherite fiefdom from republicanism, leftist thinking, and uppity ‘Nordies’ (as in Italy, and England, there are temperamental differences between north and south, seen in Gaelic football, exacerbated by the harmful dislocation of Partition).
Keena correctly locates these issues in historiography, but for the wrong reasons. The answer to narrow nationalist narrative is not an over-compensating pendulum swing of revisionism. Certainly not the Taoiseach’s ‘Pravda’-worthy intention to “consult authentic [!] historians” about centenaries.
The Establishment is very interested in the history of the Provisional [U]IRA[/U], but rather less so in whether the ‘Republic’ has been, and is, a republic, much less the one declared in 1916.
Contrary to the spectre of a return to violence raised by John A Murphy (Irish Times July 9, 2014) The Provisional IRA has gone away.
Like Dan Breen’s IRA – it is history. The same cannot be said of Loyalist Paramilitaries.
That centenary puts, front and centre, questions about what the Republic means. For example, what sense does the national flag make without pro-active engagement with the North, particularly with the Orange? Under Eamon Gilmore, the Department of Foreign Affairs has arguably been disengaging.
The egalitarian energy of the revolution was stunted by the conservatism of Cosgrave, O’Higgins, De Valera, et al… After the communal insecurity of Catholic Ireland’s long subjection, those men (the women were side-lined) were preoccupied with Edwardian ‘respectability’, and programmed a two-tier State of outward piety, maintained by double-think, whereby problematic citizens, including the poor, were less equal than others, and were often exported, or hidden. Problematic northern citizens remain hidden still, in everyday speech whereby ‘Ireland’ means 26 Counties. (President McAleese, living in Ireland, but not in ‘Ireland’, could not vote for herself in 1997). This was particularly fertile soil for the later neo-liberal economic and social model of the Celtic Tiger, the conspicuous consumption of which expressed the underlying insecure hunger for status and respectability.
This insecurity, lack of [U]confidence[/U], selfish immaturity, explains the Establishment compulsion to distort the discourse rather than compete fairly.
Fianna Fáil are sensitive to the presence of an actual Republican party, and Labour are sensitive to leftist analysis of their regressive allocation of austerity onto the less well-off. An over-compensating regard for Redmondism is strong in Fine Gael, and among restless Progressive Democrat ghosts. Redmond led far more Irishmen to lift a gun than did Pearse, yet speeches at the Irish government’s 2014 Easter commemoration at Arbour Hill curiously lionised World War One, almost to the exclusion of those interred there.
This conflicts with the urbane, eminently reasonable, self-image of D4 Liberalism, imagining itself far advanced from the cliental politics of Jackie Healey-Rae (which it so mocks), never mind the tribalism of the North. However it is consistent with a tendency to greater interest in justice issues in far off places like Latin America than fifty miles up the road. That hypocrisy supported both free speech abroad, and Section 31 censorship, which banned the reporting of remarks, on any topic, by anyone who happened also to be a member of Sinn Fein.
This insecurity and this revisionism combined in much of the Establishment commentary on President Higgins’s State visit to Britain. The visit was indeed a success, another marker in the long process of healing, but that wasn’t enough.
Stephen Collins led the bien pensant stampede to declare the End of Irish History. Francis Fukuyama now cautions against such haste! The relentless self-congratulation that ‘Ireland’ (26 Counties) was now ‘mature’ was somewhat self-contradictory. The insistence that ‘Britain is our best friend’ at times suggested satire akin to Fredo Corleone’s insistence that “Moe and me, we’re good friends, right Moe?”. Roy Foster declared the relationship ‘nearly as good as sex’.
Establishment Liberals see the past link between an obscurantist Church and suffocating State, but many fail to see that they themselves have the pulpit today, with an attendant responsibility to be fair. There are honourable exceptions, e.g. Fintan O’Toole, who readily accepts the pulpit analogy. Keena, Collins, et al far too comfortably wear John Charles McQuaid’s mitre, arrogating his authority to decide who is sufficiently in a state of grace to participate in communal sacraments (democracy, in this case). Hence sermons calling for a new ‘clean’, ‘untainted’ Sinn Fein leadership. This echoes Jim Molyneaux’s speaking of the need for a period of ‘decontamination.’
It is now long, long, past time for a fair – even mature – contest of ideas.
We’re taking over.
very strong in Dublin
next election will be interesting as it is going to be fought between a right wing FG and a left wing SF
If economic recovery continues FG may win an overall majority - Labour vote will be eaten by SF. FF are floundering as they seek to move left to compete with SF but are fighting natural instincts of hanging about in the middle and appealing to a broad range of voters
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1028667, member: 2272”]very strong in Dublin
next election will be interesting as it is going to be fought between a right wing FG and a left wing SF
If economic recovery continues FG may win an overall majority - Labour vote will be eaten by SF. FF are floundering as they seek to move left to compete with SF but are fighting natural instincts of hanging about in the middle and appealing to a broad range of voters[/QUOTE]
I’m loving to be home for a good fight with right wingers
They are finne fail life at this stage. Mary Lou comes from finne fail royalty and was a member of the party. one of the Andrew is now a Sinn feinn mep also. They won’t change a thing if they get into power.
Chris Andrews is a councillor rather than an MEP, pal.
My mistake. Hes a finne failer as is Mary Lou Sinn Fein is just a way to progress their political careers.
what an idiotic post. she was a member of the party, she hated the cronyism, the me fein attitude & the fact that people were in it for themselves rather than the greater good so she left to go into a party whose idology better suited hers.
are you saying that you should pick one party at the start of your voting life and stick with it for good no matter what they do?
[QUOTE=“The Selfish Giant, post: 1028777, member: 80”]what an idiotic post. she was a member of the party, she hated the cronyism, the me fein attitude & the factthat people were in it for themselves for the greater good so she left to go into a party whose idology better suited hers.
are you saying that you should pick one party at the start of your voting life and stick with it for good no matter what they do?[/QUOTE]
That’s what @Tassotti[/USER] and [USER=1137]@The Big Cheese have done.
Republican Sinn Fein and the dissident movement is growing as well, because this "democracy " is a sham
[QUOTE/]she hated the cronyism, the me fein attitude & the fact that people were in it for themselves rather than the greater good so she left to go into a party whose idology better suited hers.
are you saying that you should pick one party at the start of your voting life and stick with it for good no matter what they do?[/QUOTE]
Mary Lou is against REHAB using helicopters
Ms McDonald also asked Mrs Kerins about stories that she had used helicopters to fly to events. Mrs Kerins replied: “Any time I have ever been in one it hasn’t been mine and it hasn’t cost me anything.”
She uses a similar defence to Kerins when she herself is challenge re business class airfares
“I’ve never been in Australia before but anyone who has will appreciate the sheer distances involved and yes we travelled over by business class and yes we returned in business class,” she said
“As they say ‘what’s seldom is wonderful’ and it was extremely helpful given the scale of the tour itself to have that level of comfort coming and going,” she added.
Ms McDonald said she flew into Perth and visited four other cities during her 10 days visit. She said her ticket cost €4,000 and acknowledge it was expensive but said it was not paid for with taxpayer’s money.
in relation to policies well Sinn Fein (like all parties) say different things inside and outside government
In Dublin, Sinn Fein has called for a €100,000 cap on public servants in the Republic. Yet in Belfast, a recent recruiting advertisement seeking a CEO for the First Legislative Counsel in the Office of the First and Deputy First Minister, offers a salary of up to Stg£205,000 (€255,000).
EDUCATION
In the Republic, Sean Crowe, Sinn Fein’s spokesman on education, warned about the closure of rural schools in February of this year.
Mr Crowe accused the Government of “targeting mainstream and particularly small rural schools to spread unjust cuts . . .”
But in the North, Sinn Fein’s Education Minister John O’Dowd said a “sustainable schools policy could lead to the closure of 70 schools”.
In November of last year, Mr O’Dowd said: “I have therefore decided to close the (two rural) schools in (Co Armagh) as I am confident that the children’s needs can be best met at alternative schools in the area.”
HOUSEHOLD CHARGES
In the Republic, Sinn Fein has repeatedly attacked the introduction of a €100 household charge.
But in the North, Sinn Fein in government implements household taxes more than ten times higher than the proposed household charge in the Republic.
A householder in Derry with a house worth the average price in the North pays an annual charge of Stg£1,259 (€1,428).
WATER CHARGES
In the Republic, Sinn Fein has campaigned against the introduction of water charges.
But Sinn Fein MLA Mitchell McLaughlin has defended water charges in the North, a separate charge on top of the household charge there, and attacked the SDLP for opposing them.
Sinn Fein’s former regional development minister Conor Murphy declined to reverse the decision to meter water in the North when he was in office.
WELFARE CUTS
In the Republic, Sinn Fein has opposed all cuts in social welfare since the economic crisis began.
In the North, Sinn Fein in government has signed off on welfare cuts that could total Stg£600m (€747m).
One in 10 welfare recipients in the North – significantly more than any other part of Britain – are on disability allowance.
But Sinn Fein is prepared to impose a Stg£500-a-week (€622) cap on households receiving it.
REPOSSESSION OF HOMES
In the North, repossession of homes has doubled in the past two years – more than 1,000 homeowners had to return their door keys, despite Sinn Fein sharing power in government.
Yet in the Dail, Sinn Fein constantly criticises the Government for house repossession
-----------------------------------------------
Sinn Fein want a wealth tax but oppose a tax on property (most wealth is in property in Ireland or at lease wealth you could tax)
Sinn Fein propose a higher rate of tax (combined with USC and PRSI) of 72% :D:eek:
Sure I know that. It’s the craic leading up to it I’ll enjoy.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1028789, member: 2272”][QUOTE/]she hated the cronyism, the me fein attitude & the fact that people were in it for themselves rather than the greater good so she left to go into a party whose idology better suited hers.
are you saying that you should pick one party at the start of your voting life and stick with it for good no matter what they do?[/QUOTE]
Mary Lou is against REHAB using helicopters
Ms McDonald also asked Mrs Kerins about stories that she had used helicopters to fly to events. Mrs Kerins replied: “Any time I have ever been in one it hasn’t been mine and it hasn’t cost me anything.”
She uses a similar defence to Kerins when she herself is challenge re business class airfares
“I’ve never been in Australia before but anyone who has will appreciate the sheer distances involved and yes we travelled over by business class and yes we returned in business class,” she said
“As they say ‘what’s seldom is wonderful’ and it was extremely helpful given the scale of the tour itself to have that level of comfort coming and going,” she added.
Ms McDonald said she flew into Perth and visited four other cities during her 10 days visit. She said her ticket cost €4,000 and acknowledge it was expensive but said it was not paid for with taxpayer’s money.
in relation to policies well Sinn Fein (like all parties) say different things inside and outside government
In Dublin, Sinn Fein has called for a €100,000 cap on public servants in the Republic. Yet in Belfast, a recent recruiting advertisement seeking a CEO for the First Legislative Counsel in the Office of the First and Deputy First Minister, offers a salary of up to Stg£205,000 (€255,000).
EDUCATION
In the Republic, Sean Crowe, Sinn Fein’s spokesman on education, warned about the closure of rural schools in February of this year.
Mr Crowe accused the Government of “targeting mainstream and particularly small rural schools to spread unjust cuts . . .”
But in the North, Sinn Fein’s Education Minister John O’Dowd said a “sustainable schools policy could lead to the closure of 70 schools”.
In November of last year, Mr O’Dowd said: “I have therefore decided to close the (two rural) schools in (Co Armagh) as I am confident that the children’s needs can be best met at alternative schools in the area.”
HOUSEHOLD CHARGES
In the Republic, Sinn Fein has repeatedly attacked the introduction of a €100 household charge.
But in the North, Sinn Fein in government implements household taxes more than ten times higher than the proposed household charge in the Republic.
A householder in Derry with a house worth the average price in the North pays an annual charge of Stg£1,259 (€1,428).
WATER CHARGES
In the Republic, Sinn Fein has campaigned against the introduction of water charges.
But Sinn Fein MLA Mitchell McLaughlin has defended water charges in the North, a separate charge on top of the household charge there, and attacked the SDLP for opposing them.
Sinn Fein’s former regional development minister Conor Murphy declined to reverse the decision to meter water in the North when he was in office.
WELFARE CUTS
In the Republic, Sinn Fein has opposed all cuts in social welfare since the economic crisis began.
In the North, Sinn Fein in government has signed off on welfare cuts that could total Stg£600m (€747m).
One in 10 welfare recipients in the North – significantly more than any other part of Britain – are on disability allowance.
But Sinn Fein is prepared to impose a Stg£500-a-week (€622) cap on households receiving it.
REPOSSESSION OF HOMES
In the North, repossession of homes has doubled in the past two years – more than 1,000 homeowners had to return their door keys, despite Sinn Fein sharing power in government.
Yet in the Dail, Sinn Fein constantly criticises the Government for house repossession
-----------------------------------------------
Sinn Fein want a wealth tax but oppose a tax on property (most wealth is in property in Ireland or at lease wealth you could tax)
Sinn Fein propose a higher rate of tax (combined with USC and PRSI) of 72% :D:eek:[/QUOTE]
yes, how dare SF propose that we should mimic such horrible places as Denmark,Sweeden ,Finland and Norway when it comes to taxation. you never stop hearing about how tough the people of these countries have it & the vast amount of social problems that they have
[/QUOTE]
yes, how dare SF propose that we should mimic such horrible places as Denmark,Sweeden ,Finland and Norway when it comes to taxation. you never stop hearing about how tough the people of these countries have it & the vast amount of social problems that they have[/QUOTE]
Norway sits on a bit of oil and is one of the richest countries in the world
Denmark, Sweden and Norway have time limits on social welfare
Water rates in Denmark, Sweden, Finland are all about three or four times higher than here. All have property taxes. SF oppose both.
look here and you will see our current income tax rates are amongst highest and way above EU and OECD average
Scandinavia is not utopia
A week of violence in the Swedish capital indicates that not all is well in a country that prides itself on social equality.
For example, consider the effect of private pensions. Today, Denmark has a growing population of poor elderly people—a development that would be unthinkable according to the purported values of the Danish welfare system. As more and more people obtain private insurance for old-age pensions, those who depend solely on welfare pensions increasingly suffer. The first group often fails to recognize that not everyone has a private pension, and overlook the severe consequences of lower taxes for those public pension benefits
The Finnish economy is thought by some economists not just to be in recession but in a depression. Sanctions both by and against Russia are hitting the Nordic country hard and there are continuing doubts about whether the government can survive until elections in April.
“The general approach is that we are between a rock and a hard place, but we will survive
Pasi Sorjonen, an economist at Nordea who recently published a note called “[U][I]Depression is here[/I][/U]”, says the economy could contract for four consecutive years from 2012-15. “It seems that getting back to the GDP volumes of 2008 will take 10 years. It’s like a double recession,” he says.
Mr Stubb says the situation is similar to the 1990s when Finland faced a deep financial crisis before the rise of Nokia.
Norway sits on a bit of oil and is one of the richest countries in the world
Denmark, Sweden and Norway have time limits on social welfare
Water rates in Denmark, Sweden, Finland are all about three or four times higher than here. All have property taxes. SF oppose both.
look here and you will see our current income tax rates are amongst highest and way above EU and OECD average
http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/servi…/pages/individual-income-tax-rates-table.aspx
Scandinavia is not utopia
A week of violence in the Swedish capital indicates that not all is well in a country that prides itself on social equality.
For example, consider the effect of private pensions. Today, Denmark has a growing population of poor elderly people—a development that would be unthinkable according to the purported values of the Danish welfare system. As more and more people obtain private insurance for old-age pensions, those who depend solely on welfare pensions increasingly suffer. The first group often fails to recognize that not everyone has a private pension, and overlook the severe consequences of lower taxes for those public pension benefits
The Finnish economy is thought by some economists not just to be in recession but in a depression. Sanctions both by and against Russia are hitting the Nordic country hard and there are continuing doubts about whether the government can survive until elections in April.
“The general approach is that we are between a rock and a hard place, but we will survive
Pasi Sorjonen, an economist at Nordea who recently published a note called “[I]Depression is here[/I]”, says the economy could contract for four consecutive years from 2012-15. “It seems that getting back to the GDP volumes of 2008 will take 10 years. It’s like a double recession,” he says.
Mr Stubb says the situation is similar to the 1990s when Finland faced a deep financial crisis before the rise of Nokia
water taxes to go to a water system makes sense, water taxes to pay off debts that arent ours dont.
The quality of life in scandinavia is amongst the best in the world
The OECD > than failed auditors when it comes to relaible stats - it can clearly be seen we arent a high tax country & that the decent countries have high taxes, sure why dont we go down the low tax route and have the same poor quallity of life as dumps such as mexico or poland, is that what you want , for us to turn into square head juiced up polaks? cause thats the way we are fucking going
[QUOTE=“The Selfish Giant, post: 1028810, member: 80”]water taxes to go to a water system makes sense, water taxes to pay off debts that arent ours dont.
The quality of life in scandinavia is amongst the best in the world
The OECD > than failed auditors when it comes to relaible stats - it can clearly be seen we arent a high tax country & that the decent countries have high taxes, sure why dont we go down the low tax route and have the same poor quallity of life as dumps such as mexico or poland, is that what you want , for us to turn into square head juiced up polaks? cause thats the way we are fucking going
http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLE_I1[/QUOTE]
we are a high tax country on incomes above 33k
we are a very low tax country below that
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1028814, member: 2272”]we are a high tax country on incomes above 33k
we are a very low tax country below that[/QUOTE]
did you look at the table ?
yes it doesn’t have PRSI or USC for Ireland so on that basis I disregarded it as irrelevant and next to useless
it doesnt have the church tax in denmark either numb nuts