I’m no fan of ISIS but they could do the state some service that night. Lesser of two evils and all that…
That’s an awful thing to say bud.
It’s called a joke, bud. And it was funny.
Also it seems to have escaped your irony meter that the Wolfe Tones themselves exist to make a big joke of the actual real life bombing of innocent civilians.
God youse lot are fierce precious.
I am not a fan of the Wolfe Tones at all! I can’t stand them. A crime against music. Just thought that was a bit below the belt.
That’s a bit unfair.
Ah it’s not really.
You’re ignoring the point about the British army and US armies and the terrible things they did and how they are championed. The IRA had a lot more support at the time among ordinary Catholics than you are admitting there. They didn’t have the political machine set up but the tacit support for the likes of the hunger strikers was there and for the IRA on the ground versus the British army machine even if there was embarrassment at the worst atrocities.
People in south armagh and south Tyrone were as Irish as people two miles down the road in louth or Monaghan but were just cast aside. There are a lot more parallels with the likes of Russians being in Ukraine than you are admitting. They are all lines arbitrarily drawn on a map and I can’t understand how you can be so staunch in support of one and completely dismiss the other.
Well I can actually it’s a good argument on the internet
Lets look at Karens bio
https://twitter.com/karenievers
History buff, chatelaine at Mount Ievers, interests include old houses, c19 books/letters/photographs, Sixmilebridge Historical Society
Mount Ievers?
Colonel Henry Ievers (1696-1758)
FROM COLLEGE BOY TO HIGH SHERIFF
Colonel Henry Ievers, the prosperous barrister who built Mount Ievers, was the eldest son of Colonel John Ievers, whom he succeeded in 1729. He was a grandson of the Henry Ivers who acquired so much of County Clare during the latter half of the 17th century.
“Aquired”
Seems like she is a yank who wants to play dress up royal family.
Henry Ivers & The move to Ireland
A parchment found in the sideboard at Mount Ievers in July 2012 maintains that Henry Ivers arrived in Ireland in 1640 from Yorkshire, where the family had been settled since arriving with William the Conqueror nearly six hundred years earlier. It also records that Henry settled in County Clare in 1643 when he was appointed Collector of Revenue for Clare and Galway.
Fuck her
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To me the disgusting sectarian nature of the RUC at the time was a major cause of the ascent of the IRA at the time.
They were seen as the protectors of Catholics, and were. And fair play to them for defending their community. They went too far after that in view. I don’t think there is ever the need for war.
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I’m not sure what your point is? We all know the British and US armies have done terrible things in their time. Does the fact Bloody Sunday happened suddenly make Bloody Friday acceptable?
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. How many MPs did Sinn Fein get during the Troubles? They got Bobby Sands and Owen Carron (technically not Sinn Fein MPs) from 1981 to 1983 and Gerry Adams from 1983 to 1992 and then again from 1997 on. Martin McGuinness got in at the very tail end of the Troubles in 1997. By 1997 it was very clear Sinn Fein was looking for a way out of the Troubles. In the south they got no TDs. Throughout the entirety of the Troubles, the SDLP got the majority of Catholic support. The vast majority of support for the Provos was of a sort of reflexive sneaking regarder type because they were supposedly fighting the British and the British fought dirty. But the Provos fought very dirty too. How much support was there for the concept of eternal violence until a united Ireland is achieved? I would say almost none. That can be demonstrated by the widespread celebrations when the ceasefires happened. People wanted peace. The Provos campaign had failed, there was no united Ireland. But still people were celebrating. Why? Because it promised an end to violence. Much of the Catholic community itself lived in fear of the Provos, the Provos murdered 338 Catholics, a larger number than any other single group.
Northern Ireland was and is internationally recognised as part of the United Kingdom. Ukraine is internationally recognised as Ukraine, including Donbas and Crimea. These places voted for Ukrainian independence. They are part of Ukraine.
International law matters.
In many European states there have been and are pockets of ethnic groups In “other states”, ie the Germans in Czechoslovakia in 1939. Was there any real difference between that and people who identified as Irish in NI? There is no state of nature that says a 32 county Irish state should exist or has any right to exist. The notion that it has is essentially the same notion that says a Greater Germany including parts of what is now Poland or Lithuania has a right to exist, or a Greater Serbia including Kosovo and parts of Bosnia or Croatia has a right to exist, or a Greater Russia including the former USSR countries has a right to exist. But none of these things have a right to exist.
Any Ukrainians identifying as Russians are in the same boat as German identifiers in the Sudetenland in 1939 or people who identify as Irish in the North.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is the equivalent of Britain invading the modern day nation state of Ireland - Ireland as in the 26 counties. If that happened, obviously it would be condemned internationally, and Ireland would expect outside help to fight it.
No nation state exists in nature. They are all artificial creations. International law is what matters. It should not be tolerable for one state to invade another without being a last resort as it was in World War II (and I absolutely include the US invasion of Iraq in that).
In NI, the Provos did not have near enough support to win, much like, say, the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka did not. There’s no point moaning about “arbitrarily drawn lines”. These lines represent international law. Within those lines, the Provos had miniscule support. They could never win and it took them 27 long years to cop that.
Were they “defending their community” when they dragged 15 year old Bernard Teggart, who had a mental age of 8, out of his special school and butchered him?
Bernard Teggart was the son of Danny Teggart who was one of the Ballymurphy victims.
That was a very strange way to “protect your community”.
And it’s a very strange thing to be celebrating now.
I think people are forgetting how badly the catholic/nationalist community were treated in the North. They were basically not allowed employment in any of the public sector at the time - civil service. They were not given housing. Regularly attacked with impunity by the police. Pretty much zero educational prospects. They were, to all intents and purposes, left to rot. It was like how the blacks were treated in the Deep South of the US.
Rightly or wrongly, the IRA was born out of protecting their community. I’m not in any way defending the killing or maiming of anyone but that is the backdrop of why they did enjoy support from people at the time. The police and institutions were openly sectarian, who else had they to defend them.
Thousands of people being killed was absolutely horrible. No sane person is defending that.
The Wolfe Tones are a band who play rebel songs. It is what it is. A catchy song that people join in with after a few drinks. It’s not meant to be taken literally ffs. Those who join in aren’t exactly eulogising Omagh or whatever.
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