Don’t be parroting that other fool.
I never suggested a slap on the wrist, you think seizing someone’s assets, ie house car etc and taking a huge portion of their wages, maybe for decades is a slap on the wrist?
But there is a chance that non violent offenders can be punished and rehabilitated. No chance of that for violent sociopaths. You think the latter should be just let off?
just this one?
Play the ball not the man.
I thought you’d be more in favour of punishing fraudsters given what Davy has done but fair play for remaining objective.
Yes. If they stole that money it’s a slap on the wrist. In many cases they’ll never reclaim the full amount of what they stole. Sean Quinn should never have seen the light of day again after all he did. Instead he served a week inside, lives in a mansion with millions stashed away.
im playing ball and man.
at the rich end of the scale the investigations are longer and theres rarely a chance of chokey: eg anglo, inbs and davy
With proper legislation he would have had assets seized all over, the fact he spent a week inside proves how pointless short prison sentences are. Was he released due to lack of space?
Why isn’t there proper legislation? I’ll give you a clue if you want.
Quinn was released as it was a slap on the wrist punishment for a billionaire from the right social class.
That’s because they have the cash to pay ball washing lawyers to fight it. Fight it harder and longer than the state can commit time to.
There isn’t proper legislation as Irish society is weak on crime. This is my whole argument.
You’ll have to get a source for me on the release.
You said financial crime doesn’t deserve prison sentences.
What’s the deterrent so?
John Lonergan said the following in 2011;
The last piece of decent work that was done was done in 1996 in Mountjoy by Dr Paul O’Mahony and I tried to get it repeated in 2006 which would have given us a 20 year span and three comparisons to do which would have been very informative and I couldn’t get them to do it, I couldn’t get the Department of Justice to give the money to do it and it was an opportunity missed.
But in 1996/97 when it was done the last time, for instance, six little pockets in Dublin supply 75% of all Dublin born prisoners. I’ll just repeat that for you because people won’t often believe it. 75% of people came from six separate little areas, tiny little areas by the way not huge big areas, tiny little areas within six separate postal districts, 75% of all people in Mountjoy in 1996 came from those addresses so we could identify very clearly where these black spots, if you like to call them in terms of crime now, where they were located.
And the numbers were very small, the numbers are still very small in terms of the numbers of people who go to prison, very, very small, around 5,000 as I said, 5,000 two or three hundred in total, including temporary release, so when you take that out of a population of 5 million, you know, we’re still a very small system and it still gives us a great opportunity I suppose… "
I would think very little has changed. Surely the goal here should be to assist those areas. That should be in education (adult and kids), community projects, jobs etc. Flood the areas with money and try lift them.
That said, these are the areas that probably don’t bother voting so they aren’t worth assisting. The type of people who probably don’t get up early in the morning. The type of folk who are claiming the dole so the neighbours should rat on each other if one of the comes across a weeks work for a bit of cash to help pay bills or have an extra few quid to spend on the family.
The deterrent is financial ruin
indeed, with seanie fitz still in his reystones pile. sean quinn still with loads of property and sean dunne still hanging on to millions
Financial ruin is the deterrent? Explain how so?
And that’s only if they get caught, abuse of positions of power and authority should demand the most extreme of sentencing.
Yes there isn’t effective mechanisms there to enforce it. Asset seizure is complicated and underused, doesn’t need to be. Being able to go after assets fraudulently transferred would take another leap of legislative creativity but where there’s a will.
It’s all theoretical and requires legislation that will never be brought about in soft Ireland but how do you think not having property stocks shares whatever seized after conviction is not a deterrent? I mean properly hitting people, not with a fine of 500k, but with a proportional fine say 50% of all future earnings is taken in punishment for X amount of years.
We’ll just have to disagree on what demands the most extreme sentencing. But in my opinion someone who has been physically attacked or robbed with a weapon, especially in the confines of their own home generally suffers fair greater harm than someone who was ripped off.
ther issue, in the main isnt legislative, its constitutional
Oh ya, these lads not repaying fines has worked really well in the past.
The authorities are not interested in white collar crime, it targets the wrong social class.
Legislative in the broader terms. The constitution can be changed, if, yet again, society had the will.
Out of interest what provision do you think would cause an issue?
family home and divorce articles