Dogma?
Mainstream right-wing parties have been wedded to the same tiresome TINA dogma for four decades and it has been a failure
That’s the reality, and there is no acceptance of that from the mainstream right
That is the classic example of dogma
Labour’s manisfesto is the opposite of dogma, it deals with the challenges
And the Tories realise that Labour has won the economic argument, which is why their manifesto will be a cheap rip off of it
Funny how those oppose nationalisation of anything never have any such problems with transition in the opposite direction
I don’t have a problem with saying that Labour have ideas for future challenges. The merit of those is debatable as is everything else. Some are naked populism. They also have policies that are simply roll back the years to failed policies.
The idea that the NHS is beyond reproach is bizarre.
The general direction of travel is the most important thing
If Britain became more similar to the Scandinavian model, that would be a massive positive
I see nothing here from yiu or other posters except the same old turgid excuses for more of the same
Really? I think the State should always own transport infrastructure and build/develop it. I agree with franchising out operations to public and/or private operators.
I also would be strongly in favour in Ireland that the State takes back over many of the health services currently undertaken by private persons and chairities.
…so a model like Sweden where the State own the rail infrastructure and can franchise it out?
Controlling public spending including putting a ceiling on it?
Scrapping inheiritance tax?
A outward looking pro trade policy?
Abandoning state monopolies?
The much derided Free Schools that the UK already copied? The model of allowing private schools which Labour really wants to run out of the system?
It’s funny how people go on about Scandinavia but have nfi what it’s about. Most of the above is anathema to Jeremy Corbyn’s view of the world. The post war consensus policies of the UK that Corbyn et al would like to return a large part to are not what much of Scandinavia’s success is built on.
What’s populism?
One of the defining features of populism is that there is the “one true way” and things can only be done like that
That is exactly what the Tories are offering and all they have ever offered for the last 40 years, TINA in other words
Another feature of populism is the inclusion of irrelevant trigger words to mask the lack of argument
Anti-Labour posts here have been peppered with them - “student unions”, “real world experience” etc.
The point is that people’s real world experience is increasingly miserable due to the current economic model - lack of affordable and social housing, high rents, poor education standards, extortionate student fees, NHS waiting times at their highest ever, de-industrialisation and lack of investment in these areas, poor transport, poor broadband, poor policing, terrible fire safety standards, workers’ rights eroded, thee gig economy and zero hours contracts, growing racism, the hostile environment, benefit cuts, benefit cuts targets, and barbaric fitness tests to keep disability benefits
These are people’s real world experiences
Almost all these things were cited as reasons for the Brexit vote
When Brexit and Trump were voted for there was widespread acknowledgment that these were people’s real world experiences and that that pushed them towards the shysters that mobilised these real grievances for fake purposes - the ultra-rich mobilised the real grievances of the poor and working class to push them towards a hyper model of the exact system that was already failing badly
Now, when it comes to party politics, the game changes - we are told to disregard real people’s experiences and pretend everything is great
There’s a complete 180 depending on whether the issue is Brexit or the Tories, in other words, and dishonesty doesn’t even begin to describe it
Most of these Brexit-Tory 180ers have little to no experience of that real life lived experience of the poor and working class, and it is irrelevant to them
And when Labour cite the real lived experience that played a huge part in Brexit as a reason for why radical thinking needs to happen, the same people who previously cited that real life lived experience suddenly dismiss it
That’s mainstream right-wing politics, not to mention so called “centrism” in a nutshell - it has always been more amenable to the far right than it is to moderate social democracy because the far right doesn’t threaten the interests of the rich
I don’t think the Anglo-American model failed. Marxism failed though. Define failure.
Where did I defend the Conservative party manifesto?
I’ve given a real world example of how workers reps don’t work on Irish Boards. Furthermore, “social partnership” collapsed in Ireland the minute that the free money tap turned off. There is a culture problem in the UK and Ireland in relation to unions. I’d accept that also comes from employers too, but many of the problems actually came out of State ran monopolies. The fact is that by the late 1970s, the Labour Party’s centre had ran out of patience with the Unions. That includes Jim Callaghan, a left wing voice for years. Those who drove the party further to the left in the 1980s drove further away from reality and destroyed the hopes of Unions having a powerful voice in the future in mainstream UK politics.
On Scandinvaia, I simply pointed out that yourself and many on the left do not understand the various elements in the Scandinavian system. Many of the most sacred tenents are not reflected there but it is cited as the direction to go. Once again, the Nordic Model is not what the post war consensus in the UK looked like. That is where Corbyn wants to go back to, forget about even taxes for a second. I accept that Corbyn et al have looked at the future of work and have ideas that I don’t necessarily disagree with (4 day week, UBI etc.) but in my view they usually all come from a populist perspective. Jeremy Corbyn is anti globalization, that is not just in terms of a “trade rules are unfair” sense which I can understand, but it’s a dogma he has. That’s why he wants to leave the European Single Market.
The Anglo-American model has consistently failed
Wages and productivity divorced in the 1970s
Wages stayed flat while productivity rose and the gap was made up in debt
Everyhting I listed in my previous post is a major issue, and theere have been massive failings in all of these issues
And people wonder why there is anger
The problem is that the right have manipulated the anger away from those who deserve it and onto those who don’t - that’s negative populism, and we know where that leads
Look at this guy on Question Time last night - he earns above 80k and thinks he’s not in the top 50% of earners
He refuses to pay 5% more tax on what he earns above 80k
If he earns exactly 125k, he’ll pay an extra 2,250 in tax to fund a better society
If he earns 90k a year, he’ll pay an extra £500 a year in tax
That’s the kind of I’m Alright Jack greed, fake victimhood and disconnect from reality that has Britain in the state that it is in
Except since then food prices have fallen drastically, poverty has fallen etc. Throughout recessions and the last GFC, we have not witnessed the scenes that occurred in the likes of the Soviet Union at collapse or more recently Venezuala.
Productivity shot up in the 1950s for a variety of factors including the long tail impact of WWII and technological advances.
Would he see an improvement in public services for his extra 5% tax?
If JP paid 5% less tax he could afford to bring the Camogie team to SandyLane too next year.
Imagine that
I don’t think we could handle the fall out from that scenario in fairness.
Would that be the same Venezuela where poverty fell drastically under Chavez?
He wouldn’t pay an extra 5% tax
He’d pay an extra 5% tax on his income over 80k
That’s not an extra 5% on his income
Learn the difference between effective and marginal tax rates, please
The post war consensus era was brought about to stop a repeat of thirty years of madness in Europe. The ruling elite realized that the madness, war and revolution, couldn’t continue, their head would be on a spike and the rest of the people hadn’t done too well out of the madness either and were prepared to buy into the concept. So you had a half century of Christian/Social Democracy in North and West Europe which trundled along so long as there were enough people alive who remembered the madness. That generation is more or less gone now. Top that with the man in the street getting an almighty kick in the nuts around 10 years ago and the post war order has been at melting point since.
Huh? How is his former regime going now?
An economy built upon exploiting fossil fuel burning at high prices (uh oh green agenda!) and in sourcing everything to people who didn’t know what they were doing which led to inefficiency and rampant corruption.
And trying to stop Communism.
That was the “revolution” bit.